Gear returned from servicing with issue

[davehicks]

I also just looked at the Bare drysuit manual. It does not mention any predive checks at all but does have this helpful? information:

D) VALVE CARE Both valves should be checked/serviced annually by a SI TECH/ APEKS approved service center.

VALVES PROBLEM: WET ARM(S), CHEST AND SHOULDER AREA, AND CROTCH
POSSIBLE CAUSE: • Valve not tightened securely to suit
...
POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS: • Tighten the valve to the suit by holding the outer section and turning (clockwise) the inner section

Which is what I did - more or less - I pressed the inner section against my arm and rotated the outer until tight.

Polling the group: has anyone seen valves come loose in normal use? Just wondering how often that happens since I've never seen that before on myself or the divers I was with.

They can get loose, but it is also supposed to be easy to remove them by hand. It's not a bad idea to unscrew and pull it off and give it a good rinse under a faucet once in a while. Thoroughly flush out grit that can clog them up or make the rotation more difficult.

 

[BoltSnap]

I also just looked at the Bare drysuit manual. It does not mention any predive checks at all but does have this helpful? information:

D) VALVE CARE Both valves should be checked/serviced annually by a SI TECH/ APEKS approved service center.

VALVES PROBLEM: WET ARM(S), CHEST AND SHOULDER AREA, AND CROTCH
POSSIBLE CAUSE: • Valve not tightened securely to suit
...
POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS: • Tighten the valve to the suit by holding the outer section and turning (clockwise) the inner section

Which is what I did - more or less - I pressed the inner section against my arm and rotated the outer until tight.

Polling the group: has anyone seen valves come loose in normal use? Just wondering how often that happens since I've never seen that before on myself or the divers I was with.

It ain't rocket science...


This first video from a well known and popular on SB drysuit mfg. tells you what went wrong with your valve and why it most likely wasn't the fault of your LDS and it was your responsibility to do a check on the valve before diving with it:







Let Google be your guide:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Bare+exhaust+valve%2FDrysuit+Deflator+valve+dissassembly

 

[Wookie]

Polling the group: has anyone seen valves come loose in normal use? Just wondering how often that happens since I've never seen that before on myself or the divers I was with.

Yup, a few times.

Usually the shoulder dump while at depth and someone unscrews it too far. Have also seen the inflator fall apart.

But I ran a liveaboard dive boat, so I've seen a lot of things.

 

[Shaun_Mc]

The diver is responsible for checking their own equipment, serviced or not. It is essential that the diver checks the operation of their equipment prior to diving in ALL circumstances. This includes checking the valves in the drysuit, BC's etc. I teach my students in the entry level and advanced courses to check the BC valves in addition to checking the operation of the regulator and the tightness of the hoses. ALL straps, connectors, clips on ALL of the dive equipment must be checked. In fact, I dedicate half day to equipment care and maintenance in my advanced course in addition to other skills I teach.

This doesn't absolve the technician/repair center from their responsibilities at all but the user is responsible for their own safety including inspecting their own equipment and shouldn't put this particular/specific responsibility on somebody else. Again, you can ignore the diver's role in the circle and blame everything on the technician/LDS but if something is wrong, it is the diver who is going to get hurt. I prefer to be proactive and do my part to prevent injury or death to myself and not be passive and just expect others to care about me more than I do EVEN if they were paid to do it. It is my health, my life and my responsibility.

For the life of me, I truly can't believe that the OP jumped in the water with his drysuit without doing a full check or inspection of the suit including ALL valves after they came back from service. This is the perfect picture of complacency and dependency that hurts divers. I check EVERY single valve on my BC before every single dive and teach my students to do the same. I do the same to my own drysuit.

When I owned my dive center in NY, I had a big workshop with around 5 technicians working on the service of many brands and different types of equipment. They were highly trained technicians who had to go through several training programs and continuing education courses. I prepared a "pre-delivery" check list for them to use when they are done servicing any dive equipment especially regulators. They had to follow it and check everything and sign it at the end before getting in touch with the customer to tell them that their equipment is ready for pick up. I did random spot checks frequently on the "ready for pick up" rack when I come in the store in the morning to make sure that everyone was doing their job per rules and standards. The senior sales staff were trained to do another check and follow a written checklist before handing over the equipment to the customer. Some of the sales staff were trained on regulator service and VCI. Sales staff were also required to bring a filled Tank for the customer to test his equipment (regulator/BC) per a checklist before they left the store with their equipment.

Anyone that filled Tanks or had anything to do with compressed gas or compressor, had to take a two day training in addition to following a detailed check list that was posted by the compressor and fill station. If anyone didn't follow procedure, they had to deal with the dark side of my personality.

Although I am not going to say that we never had an issue with equipment that we serviced after it left my dive shop, I am very confident to say that we seldom had any issues with anything we serviced in-house after the client picked it up.

If thats the case i would like the industry to stop treating everything like some mystical thing that only your authorized LDS can take care of. I can service my Oxy/Acetylene Regs and they are far more dangerous to many more people than a scuba regulator. From day one of the classes they sell is trying to convince you that THEY are the only people you can trust to do anything to your gear. I had a set of regulators rebuilt for my wife when we were taking OW classes, i had been diving for years before but took the class with her because she wanted us to do it together. I paid for the service and they didn’t do anything, IP still shooting up(creep would be an understatement) and some of the hoses leaked. A student is supposed to be able to identify IP issues? The manager claimed that there was a mixup and then serviced them properly. I have since bought gear that the manufacturers dont hold a monopoly on parts.

 

[happy-diver]

anyone realised during these attempts at apportioning that we are the image of what service guys have become

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

The diver is responsible for checking their own equipment, serviced or not. It is essential that the diver checks the operation of their equipment prior to diving in ALL circumstances. This includes checking the valves in the drysuit, BC's etc. I teach my students in the entry level and advanced courses to check the BC valves in addition to checking the operation of the regulator and the tightness of the hoses. ALL straps, connectors, clips on ALL of the dive equipment must be checked. In fact, I dedicate half day to equipment care and maintenance in my advanced course in addition to other skills I teach.

This doesn't absolve the technician/repair center from their responsibilities at all but the user is responsible for their own safety including inspecting their own equipment and shouldn't put this particular/specific responsibility on somebody else. Again, you can ignore the diver's role in the circle and blame everything on the technician/LDS but if something is wrong, it is the diver who is going to get hurt. I prefer to be proactive and do my part to prevent injury or death to myself and not be passive and just expect others to care about me more than I do EVEN if they were paid to do it. It is my health, my life and my responsibility.

For the life of me, I truly can't believe that the OP jumped in the water with his drysuit without doing a full check or inspection of the suit including ALL valves after they came back from service. This is the perfect picture of complacency and dependency that hurts divers. I check EVERY single valve on my BC before every single dive and teach my students to do the same. I do the same to my own drysuit.

When I owned my dive center in NY, I had a big workshop with around 5 technicians working on the service of many brands and different types of equipment. They were highly trained technicians who had to go through several training programs and continuing education courses. I prepared a "pre-delivery" check list for them to use when they are done servicing any dive equipment especially regulators. They had to follow it and check everything and sign it at the end before getting in touch with the customer to tell them that their equipment is ready for pick up. I did random spot checks frequently on the "ready for pick up" rack when I come in the store in the morning to make sure that everyone was doing their job per rules and standards. The senior sales staff were trained to do another check and follow a written checklist before handing over the equipment to the customer. Some of the sales staff were trained on regulator service and VCI. Sales staff were also required to bring a filled Tank for the customer to test his equipment (regulator/BC) per a checklist before they left the store with their equipment.

Anyone that filled Tanks or had anything to do with compressed gas or compressor, had to take a two day training in addition to following a detailed check list that was posted by the compressor and fill station. If anyone didn't follow procedure, they had to deal with the dark side of my personality.

Although I am not going to say that we never had an issue with equipment that we serviced after it left my dive shop, I am very confident to say that we seldom had any issues with anything we serviced in-house after the client picked it up.

Agreed, the diver should check their own equipment, at least a visual check to make sure hoses are not cracked or leaking, purge covers are not cracked or damaged, turn air on and purge both regs, make sure they work, check BC for fraying stitching - chafed areas that could be problematic, etc. that is (or should be) part of open water.
And if more is needed there is equipment specialist.
That’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about problems that might require tools or know how that is outside the realm if a basic recreational diver.
Maybe “back in the day” there was a lot more DIY and divers were taught to check their stuff more in depth. But that’s not always the case now, there is a much wider cross section of people diving now many of which don’t even know what end of the wrench to hold or how to screw anything on, or which way is tighten or loosen.
What about hose protectors? Do you expect a person with weak hands to just pull those back to check the hoses? Not so easy.
And the drysuit vent, just like a BC inflator they are very easy to cross thread if you’re not careful.
Like I said, not everyone is gear savvy or good with their hands, that doesn’t make them idiots or mean they shouldn’t dive. At least they have the smarts to know what they don’t know and pay someone to do it.
The person who is paid to do it and claims to be an expert better be one because if someone gets hurt you can blame the customer all you want, but bottom line the attorneys and courts will see it differently.

BTW, in the auto repair industry in the US we have an agency called BAR (Bureau of Automotive Repair) and if a shop screws up some thing that directly affects vehicle safety (even changing a tail light bulb) there will be hell to pay.
In scuba the public is protected by good attorneys.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I'm reminded of a personal story:

Story 1: A number of years ago, I had a modified car, which some bolts on the exhaust would work themselves loose after about 6-12 months. It was annoying to deal with, but took maybe 15 minutes, crawling under my lowered car, in hot/cold weather, on the pavement, etc, trying to get a good angle. On a lift, it would be a 2-minute job at most. One time I decided to just coat-wire it up, and drive to a local shop, and just ask them to deal with it. They said they'd have to give me a quote (weird) , and an hour later they told me "that'll be $800" me "It's just a couple bolts, I've done it before, and it takes me about $15 without a lift. Are you sure?" Them: "Yes, $800 to bolt it up." me: "Ok, I'm just going to go pick up my car." And sure enough, the job took me about 15 minutes.

Story 2: Back to scuba, I had an incident where a scuba-shop condemned a tank I brought in for VIP, because of the manufacture date. TLDR: There were about half-a-dozen things wrong with that story, and you can read the full story here. Now, I'm about 50/50 on whether I'll take the stupid VIP class, or just print some stickers, because pretty much everyone I talk to who has the VIP qualifications says it's a giant scam.

Anyway, my point being, if I know how to work on my car, regulators, BCD, etc .... then I'm just going to do it myself. And every time I get screwed, I often have to learn 25% to 50% of the job to double-check their work, which means I'm not that far off from learning how to do it myself.

As soon as you said “modified” and “lowered” I saw the shop in question hold up a cross to your car, lol!
Even at $100 an hour that $800 means a whole day of labor and the “estimate” was probably more like a quote. They absolutely did not want to work on your car and it sounds like their prayer was answered.

 

[undrwater]

If something falls, I'd rather be pissed off at myself than the shop.

 

[BoltSnap]

The diver should check their own equipment, agreed. At least a visual check to make sure hose are not cracked, purge covers are not cracked or damaged, turn air on and purge both regs, make sure they work, etc. that is part of open water.
And if more is needed there is equipment specialist.
That’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about problems that might require tools or know how that is outside the realm if a basic recreational diver.
Maybe “back in the day” there was a lot more DIY and divers were taught to check their stuff more in depth. But that’s not always the case now, there is a much wider cross section of people diving now many of which don’t even know what end of the wrench to hold or how to screw anything on, or which way is tighten or loosen.
What about hose protectors? Do you expect a person with weak hands to just pull those back to check the hoses? Not so easy.
And the drysuit vent, just like a BC inflator they are very easy to cross thread if you’re not careful.
Like I said, not everyone is gear savvy or good with their hands, that doesn’t make them idiots or mean they shouldn’t dive. At least they have the smarts to know what they don’t know and pay someone to do it.
The person who is paid to do it and claims to be an expert better be one because if someone gets hurt you can blame the customer all you want, but bottom line the attorneys and courts will see it differently.

BTW, in the auto repair industry in the US we have an agency called BAR (Bureau of Automotive Repair) and if a shop screws up some thing that directly affects vehicle safety (even changing a tail light bulb) there will be hell to pay.
In scuba the public is protected by good attorneys.

So they can screw and unscrew a regulator first stage yoke or din from a valve, turn on and off a tank valve, zip their drysuit and unzip, carry their tanks to/from dive site, connect and disconnect a LP BC power inflator hose, they can put the BC straps on a tank and secure it, etc. but they can't turn a valve cover to make sure it is situated and tightened properly??? They can't check the hoses on their regulator and make sure that they are secured on the first and second stages?? They can't check the valves on their BC's to make sure they aren't loose? So people who have "save a dive kit" with some sort of a wrench or multi-tool are carrying them to pick their teeth?

Give me a break, give a reasonable argument here.

It is ironic that the people taking a side against a very freakin simple task, checking a valve, are some of the most ardent supporters of DIY for regulator service who keep preaching it to everyone who even hints at buying a regulator on SB.

 

[BoltSnap]

If something falls, I'd rather be pissed off at myself than the shop.

Why is that?