Ft. Lauderdale 11/12 The Sea Empress AOW

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Howard (and to a lesser extent, Jim)
You guys are obviously at the point in your diving where you know your limits and feel rightly empowered to thumb a dive when those limits are breached.

Please try and remember back to a time when this was not the case and cut this poster some slack. He's already learned some huge lessons here and the posts are getting needlessly righteous.

When we are new at any activity, there are always points in time when to some extent we have little choice to trust the judgment or logistics of professionals running the show. When you one new, you often don't know what you don't know.

A book might describe what heavy seas are like that are too rough to dive. But if you have never encountered those Seas and you see your guides and all other divers climbing in, my guess is a large percentage of neophyte divers will follow.Sometimes it is just too early to know until you've been there.

If my instructor and guide told me in the briefing that the dive-ending pressure was 1800 psi and he continued the dive after I signaled this pressure, you can bet that it would be confusing and unsettling to most any new diver , whether this was still enough air to safely finish the dive or not.In that position, any new diver would be justified in assuming that the turn pressure was arrived at for good reason (depth, currents, distance to be covered, sea condition, etc.) and to go beyond that previously described limit wind easily be unsettling.

A forum like this (and event reporting) seems best served when senior divers can lend insights and advice without the kind of ego-baggage that will turn off any listener to the advice in the first place, even if it is very good advice...
 
howarde:
I also felt that a lot of people were just merely sympathizing with Vayu, who should fully take this learning experience as a valuable one. Many people dive 100's of dives without ANY incident. He "survived" this incident, and hopefully learns from his mistake... Learning from mistakes (hopefully small non-life threatening mistakes) gives experience, which is more valuable than knowledge you acquire from a book.

And I agree with you, Howarde. :wink: I also think that Vayu should log some dives before AOW. And I would advise a different instructor next time. You learn something from every incident. I acutally thumbed my AOW night dive during the tour. We were under a pier and surge pushed me into an urchin. I came away with the knowledge that urchins like to come out and play at night, and boy do they hurt! :D
 
When I say the water is unlucky and ask people to watch their step, I am asking so due to the bad seas we have been having lately on that coast. In addition to the 3 injured divers on my trip, there has been a fatality. It is not a bad thing to ask people to be cautious.

-V
 
Vayu Glad To Hear Of Your Recovery. I't Seems You Have Learned A Valuable Lesson Thats How We Grow Anything That Doesnt Kill Us Only Makes Us Wiser.
 
I am glad you are OK. That sounds like a very scary experience. I believe you freaked up under water-for one I dont blame you. Because of an experience I had... guess where? In Florida (it was Isla Morada??) I am not gonna go into details..but the best thing to do once you feel you are about to freak out is to relax. Check your situation and think about the best course of action. Should I go up? How much time I have?

Close you eyes and try to breather slowly...my experience was similar than yours. But it was day time, 96 feet...rough seas, VERY strong current. I finished my safety stop with 500psi left. I had to swam back to the boat using my snorkel

That's the second thing I learned...always bring the snorkel...

Good Luck
 
Ok, I get it. I made a mistake getting into the water. I will try to explain a few things.

We had two glass bottom boats with upwards of 20 people on each boat. One boat docked upstream on the sea empress and the other docked upstream to a close site. No student had dived the site during the day and no instructors have been on it since hurricane wilma. This goes against NAUI standards.

I'm pretty sure I did not panic. It is very possible that the weather got worse after 30 minutes at depth. Staying with the group was integral for everyone. Not only was the group a good source of air, it made things alot easier to deal with when things got bad. Two students in a different group made an ascent from 60' in 15 seconds and were already on the boat. If luck was not with us, that could have been a real emergency and the boat probably would not have had enough time to pick up an additional number of split groups. The fact that I was able to get back on the boat at all is amazing. Over 7 groups of 5+ were in the water and most had an extended wait in the ocean before they were able to be found.

I hope none of you have to be in that kind of storm. I am a STRONG swimmer and you must believe me when I say it is by my own merits I got out of this one. I appreciate all your advice but I fear there is not much you can say that I have not considered.

-V
 
Just read the other posts. Thanks JR. kinda put things in a little different light as far as events but still does not change my feelings about getting more experience, knowing your limits, being responsible for your self and evaluating your level of preparedness. I just logged dives 77 & 78. 77 was my fifth solo in the 80-105 ft range. 78 was a nav dive with max depth of 47 ft with a buddy. I did aow after dive number 10. along with nitrox that weekend. had rescue by dive 30 and started DM at 53. still working on that. In the meantime I picked up specialties in deep, drysuit, uw nav, and equip specialist. As soon as I get dm I'll do peak buoyancy. And if things work out this winter (feb maybe for my birthday) I'll do ice. Most of my dives are in vis no better than 10 ft. 4-6 is the norm. To date I've helped with approx 25 ow certs, 5 aow certs, 1 rescue, and 8 jr open water. Most of my dives have necessarily been with an instructor in the water tho not directly instructing me. I do however watch, listen, and talk to as many divers as I can. I pick their brains. I adapt techniques they use if it will benefit me. Why this diatribe? Because there are those who think starting dm at 50 is too soon. And actually I agree in most cases. But for someone like me who spend most of my dive time more or less working as opposed to just fun it's not. I say to newbies out here. Go to your lds or instructor, ask if you can help out. For free! Watch what they do with others. Just be there to show newer people that this is fun. I don't have a regular buddy. I dive with just about anyone,there are some I won't because of there approach toward safety, but for the most part I can dive with anyone because I have. And guess what if you do this you are getting further training. You are helping your self as well as others. I get no monetary pay for all of this other than air and some bigger discounts on gear. I worked till 11 last night and got up at 6 this am to help with a discover scuba presentation at a local college that is about a 45 min drive for me. No pay other than the most valuable type of pay for me as it concerns diving. EXPERIENCE!
 
Good points jagfish,

I wonder what those who say these divers should have disregarded their instructor's instructions would say if they had done so and suffered an accident? Would it be the students fault too? Is this a no win situation for them?

An instructor should not place a student in a position where the student has a reasonably compelling safety reason to disregard his instructions based on previous, now contradictory, instructions. This is total instruction melt down. The instructor student relationship entails a fundamental level of trust.

On the other hand the advice given "Your life is your responsibility" can not be overemphasized enough. Everyone has to do some homework in order not to blindly trust.
 
Vayu sez:

"I hope none of you have to be in that kind of storm. I am a STRONG swimmer and you must believe me when I say it is by my own merits I got out of this one. I appreciate all your advice but I fear there is not much you can say that I have not considered."

Hey, V!

For the record I didn't really hear you were in panic, or freak out mode in your original post. Maybe you had a slight panic attack after surfacing but I don't know. I agree with some of the comments on this thread that the dive shouldn't have been organized without a set of conditions designed to cancel, or failsafe, the adventure in case of high seas or other task loading elements. (And they were there in spades, eh?)

But I'm really writing to make the comment to you that, for me, SCUBA diving is designed to be fun, relaxing, entertaining and a unique life experience. Diving, to me, is not meant to be an extreme "death sport" or personal challenge. I dive deep, at night, in current and with big fish but I always remember I'm doing this for FUN. An ill equipped night dive in heavy swells with people on a cattle boat pukin' and looking for the O2 ain't my idea of fun. Next time, have fun.

Hope you're well and thanks for posting!

Sea ya!
 
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