Ft. Lauderdale 11/12 The Sea Empress AOW

[Jim Lapenta]

Agreed dive op should not have gone out in the first place. Yet they did and people went with them. I do not believe that anyone was however forced to go into the water at gunpoint. A divers ultimate safety rests with the diver. A whistle is cheap, so is a strobe, and a light. If this were purely an ow course I would be harder on the op. Regardless of their record in the past these were aow candidates. Cerftified divers responsible for their own safety. It was known that it was a night dive from the beginning. If each was not properly equipped from the start for a night boat dive they should not have gone. When the plan changed they should have said "up yours this is not what we were supposed to do". If one knows he's an air hog he should work on getting that under control before going for aow where deep dives are invloved. Is this a requirement for a class. If so and one is not ready, drop the class and get some experience. And thumbs up means "that's it I'm done, screw you guys I'm going home!" If you and your buddy agreed to a plan you stick to it and the others be dammed. That's why you carry surface signaling devices. If you don't want to or can't afford them maybe you need to try another activity. Regardless of whether or not anyone else had them is immaterial. If you've got 'em and you need to, use the things! Aow are certified divers and should not require babysitters to tell them when to signal for help. If you need help signal. If someone does not like it tough. What would have happened if the group really got seperated? Are you going to stay down and look for them? No when you want to go up, go up if your buddy and you agree. Signal the boat, get out, get dried off and have a cup of something hot while the other idiots are swimming like fools. And remember: Anyone may call a dive at any time, for any reason, and that reason need not be given. Ears, sinuses, anxiety, cold, or a fart in crossways, it does not matter. Nobody has you on a leash.

 

[HowardE]

Jim.

It's about time someone cut through the bull and got right to it.

I tried to be nice, and PC and all... But the truth be told. (like Jim says above) It was an AOW "course" which anyone who's got a PADI AOW knows, is not a COURSE... You pretty much dive with an instructor. In this case, the student FAILED. Nothing against him, but really... This whole thing is more like whine & cheese. He failed to prove his "advanced-ness" and is upset, because he wasn't coddled more by the instructors.

Of course, some people will read this and think it's being harsh, but enough of the pitty. The mistake was clearly made a diver with minimal experience, trying to go beyond their diving limits.

No offense intended to anyone.

 

[Vayu]

Howarde,

You seem to know alot about the situation. Thank you for all your wisdom. I disagree with what you have said. I must remind you that you were not in the water. Please refrain from mixing bias and speculation with fact. I am a man with little sympathy for ignorance. I will match you anyday.

-V

 

[HowardE]

Howarde,

You seem to know alot about the situation. Thank you for all your wisdom. I disagree with what you have said. I must remind you that you were not in the water. Please refrain from mixing bias and speculation with fact. I am a man with little sympathy for ignorance. I will match you anyday.

-V

I said... no disrespect to you... But really... What were you expecting? AOW is to prove your skills. Your panic attack was nothing more than lack of experience. Believe me... When I had less than 15 dives in... I may have reacted the same way. I now have nearly 100 dives in, and I would know what to expect on a night dive in rough seas.

I always carry at least 2 light sources during night dives. I have a whistle, as well as a strobe on me for night dives. I dive a lot in South Florida, and I know how the conditions can vary. If I was in your position (while it's easy to say from my desk) I would have surfaced, and tried to signal the boat. Forget about the instructor. If I felt I was low on air, which you were not. You originally stated that you showed the instructor your air levels several times. He may have gotted annoyed? Perhaps this isn't the correct response. But you as a "certified diver" are looking out for #1 that's you.

I think the whole incident SHOULD be chalked up to experience, and you should move on. If you ever wanted to dive with me... I would. Would I surface with you if you were my buddy? Absolutely. Was the Instructor a bad buddy towards you... YES.

I personally hope that you learned about diving within your limits, and that YOU are ultimately the one who needs to decide what you do in any situation.

As I've said several times here... I don't want you to think I'm harshing on you... Perhaps your instructor should have told you more about what he thought you did wrong instead of giving you the silent treatment.

I definitely think you got a bad deal from this instructor. The instructor should have told you the next day when you saw him what he thought about the whole thing, rather than "shunning you".

I know many people have been overly sympathetic to your situation, and I have been more stern in my opinion here, but I would hope that you'll take what I say to heart, and just pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and try it again.

 

[TheRedHead]

I said... no disrespect to you... But really... What were you expecting? AOW is to prove your skills.

If AOW is to prove your skills, why are students encouraged to take it right after OW? I thought it was to gain more experience under the supervision of an instructor.

We had to master skills in our AOW class. We had to navigate a square during the night dive. That would be very hard to do in a brisk current.

 

[HowardE]

If AOW is to prove your skills, why are students encouraged to take it right after OW? I thought it was to gain more experience under the supervision of an instructor.

We had to master skills in our AOW class. We had to navigate a square during the night dive. That would be very hard to do in a brisk current.

Don't ask me why people are encouraged to take it right after OW. I didn't do mine until I had almost 50 dives in. I personally think that there should be a pre-requisite of 25 logged dives before AOW.

I have said several times here, that way too many people are in a HUGE RUSH to collect C-Cards.

This particular "incident" is about a guy who was doing a night dive on a wreck... No SKILLS are required for the night dive, other than doing it.

 

[TheRedHead]

Don't ask me why people are encouraged to take it right after OW. I didn't do mine until I had almost 50 dives in. I personally think that there should be a pre-requisite of 25 logged dives before AOW.

I have said several times here, that way too many people are in a HUGE RUSH to collect C-Cards.

This particular "incident" is about a guy who was doing a night dive on a wreck... No SKILLS are required for the night dive, other than doing it.

See PADI Adventures in Diving page 208 on the Night Dive Overview: Navigation Exercise. We did skills on ALL of our AOW dives except Deep where we did tasks. Perhaps your instructor didn't follow the Overview in the book?

I'm glad I didn't take my AOW in Florida. Between this post and Casemanager, getting your AOW in Florida sounds unpleasant.

 

[HowardE]

On the contrary, mine (AOW) was quite pleasant. Maybe I had a better instructor than the other people who are mostly complaining about their poor experience. Perhaps if divers were more experienced BEFORE they attempted AOW, they wouldn't have so much to gripe about, and they would instead be complaining about how easy their AOW was.

Your "I'm glad I didn't take my AOW in Florida" is about as bright a statement that Vayu posted about the recent diver death in Ft Lauderdale.

"This seems to be an unlucky place. Everyone please watch their step around this water. Very unfortunate circumstances."

It's about as un-lucky, as it is a bad place to take an AOW.

 

[TheRedHead]

On the contrary, mine (AOW) was quite pleasant. Maybe I had a better instructor than the other people who are mostly complaining about their poor experience. Perhaps if divers were more experienced BEFORE they attempted AOW, they wouldn't have so much to gripe about, and they would instead be complaining about how easy their AOW was.

I found AOW fairly easy and I did have about 65 dives when I took it. Yet, I am unimpressed with many of the dive operators in the Keys. They run cattle boats and disgorge huge numbers of divers/students per trip. I could have taken AOW in Florida, but decided I didn't want to based on the quality of the dive operators I've experienced. Perhaps if you live in Florida and know the dive shops, your chances of finding a quality instructor would be higher.

I think Vayu's instructors made some serious mistakes in taking him on a deep night dive with high seas and not turning the dive when Vayu signaled 1800 psi, which was the dive plan. It seems they also got blown off a wreck and didn't want to signal the boat. Then they tried to swim 300 yards against a current. Doesn't sound very smart to me. I don't think that this is the kind of Adventure that PADI has in mind.

 

[HowardE]

Redhat... I agree with your last post entirely, and had pretty much said the same thing in previous posts on this thread. I don't dive in the Keys a lot, and I know that there are a lot of cattle boats down there. Personally, on a wreck dive... If (which I have never had happen) get blown off the wreck... I would surface.

I didn't want to be taken as being too aggressive in my responses in this thread... I did also say in this thread that both parties are responsible for several mistakes made.

I also felt that a lot of people were just merely sympathizing with Vayu, who should fully take this learning experience as a valuable one. Many people dive 100's of dives without ANY incident. He "survived" this incident, and hopefully learns from his mistake... Learning from mistakes (hopefully small non-life threatening mistakes) gives experience, which is more valuable than knowledge you acquire from a book.