Ft. Lauderdale 11/12 The Sea Empress AOW

[Web Monkey]

First, if the dive looks creepy, stay on the boat, or better yet, shore.

I'm not exactly Mike Nelson (Sea Hunt reference for those not old enough to have seen it), but I've got around 150 dives and there's no way I'd get on a dive boat in heavy seas at night.

Second, your thumb isn't a question, it's a statement. When you and/or your buddy decides that you've reached your turning point, notify the DM or other dive party members, then take your buddy and leave. It doesn't matter if the DM wants to take you on a tour of the Atlantic, or go find Nemo. When you decide it's time to go, it's time to go.

I beleive that being dependent on a dive leader is one of the great shortcomings of many OW classes. When you decide it's time to go, it's time to go.

Terry

The plan was at 1800 to notify instructors and as a group we would head back to the ascent line slowly and get on board. I believed this is what we were doing as they kept signalling 'OK' and pointing in a specific direction. As it turns out, we continued to swim with the current away from the boat and wreck. My
-V

 

[HowardE]

But the lessons to be taken from this experience for Vayu and others seem clear.

1. If the conditions are bad, can the dive.
2. If you make a viable plan, follow it.
3. Don't dive in open water, particularly at night, without requisite safety gear.
4. If you have a dive leader, make sure you can trust them. If not, do your own plan.

I agree with you. These are the tough lessons to learn here... The dive op shouldn't have made the trip, as I and Tom W have said...

Experienced divers haven't been diving here lately, because of STRONG SEAS.

I just went diving today, and the seas were rough, but the current was mild.

But like PerroneFord said too... Why did the captain park upstream from the wreck?

Also, why did the DM say, "let's swim for it"... I mean really... It's a BOAT, they can MOVE, and come to the swimmers.

Again, I am glad that Vayu is ok... I know some good instructors that would be more sensible if you want me to tell you whom to contact.

 

[BIGSAGE136]

7' Seas on a night dive! Was Jenny there?

 

[Scuba]

Vayu,

It's probably a good idea to file a formal incident report with the proper school department (s), and any outside SCUBA training agency the instructor or program may be associated with if they were acting in that capacity.

 

[LAJim]

Vayu:

Notify the Dean of Student Affairs or a similar person. Department Heads sometimes contain problems rather than solve them. An issue involving wreckless endangerment of students on what we are assuming is a University activity is a higher profile matter and should be handled by an administrator with the stripes to cut through the nonsense. The only thing I don't like about this course is that the simplest way for this (unknown) institution to deal with it is to distance itself from scuba certification.

I was in a meeting yesterday where we were discussing possible activities for an undergraduate science honors program in the LA area. As one suggestion I threw out getting a group certified so that they could participate in some of the marine science activities and/or just get orientered to ecosystems off Catalina or the Channel Islands. The word "liability" came out of every mouth before I was done speaking.

 

[Vayu]

Thanks for all of your advice and support. There are certainly things that need to be addressed. I am still having diagnostic work done and will update if anything comes out of it. I will be contacting several officials including the dean, certifying agencies, and coastguard.

They are doing rescues tonight in pool... without me :14:

-V

 

[Divedoggie]

Vayu,
I hope that you are ok!
Most of the above advise is really good.
In addition, it seems like your group was too big. The Instructors and DM's lost control of the group, and were so intent on their goal, that they lost sight on safety. As everyone above has said, ultimately, you have to be in control of your own dive.
I hope that you will get healthy and have some good diving experiences, and that you won't quit with a bad taste in your mouth.

I dove in the Keys all week, and the conditions were brutal. East winds were ripping!Seas were 6 to 8 feet, occasionally 10 feet. Vis was 5 to 20 feet. A night dive was never even a glimmer of thought!

On Monday, my buddy and I were the only ones diving. We know each other well, and are both experienced. We have both been down in some bad conditions before, so we thought we'd go for it. He owns a dive Op, and since there were no customers going out, we thought that we might use the opportunity to explore an un-marked wreck. It is on some charts, but not buoyed. If it was good, we would pipoint the center of it on the GPS.
We had one dive planned on the wreck at 90 feet. We aborted the dive at about 80 feet when it became apparent that the vis was down to 5 feet or less. My buddy and I almost became separated when we drifted beyond that 5 foot ability to see each other. When we regained visual contact, we stopped the decsent and began the ascent. No dive is more important than your life. After a tough scramble back onto the boat, we put the wind at the stern and headed back to port where we could enjoy a nice dinner, drinks, and a great Monday Night Football game!
We will check that sight out on another day!

 

[moneysavr]

Thanks for all of your advice and support. There are certainly things that need to be addressed. I am still having diagnostic work done and will update if anything comes out of it. I will be contacting several officials including the dean, certifying agencies, and coastguard.

They are doing rescues tonight in pool... without me :14:

-V

Hey Vayu,
All in all your lucky to be posting and thats a good thing!
2 things: do you have a DAN card? If not get one any level! all who read this should too!
Two: are you giving up diving? All in all you have learned some major life lessons and this will make you a good diver.
Hope you get back in the water,
And I'm Dam sure PADI took night dive off the Advance dive requirement "that you had to do it",Cause new divers have more task load than they can do allready!
Dive safe!Its FUN!
Brad

 

[diverjeff]

My 2 cents - Cross that dive op off your list! - abort your dive anytime you need to with your buddy - and inform, not ask, your instructor or DM. If they have a problem with that, talk it over back on the boat. As an aside, does not sound like the dive shaould have been attempted in the firse place!

 

[Lead_carrier]

I have NO DOUBT the dive op was being pressed to go out. But likely by the overzealous dive leader for the trip. I STRONGLY doubt it was the unfortunate students who were communicating with dive op. Any academic dive leader in their right mind would have called the dive after looking at the marine forecast. As others who live in the area are saying, the seas were not conducive to recreational diving. In all fairness, the dive op should have gave a firm no. You would have thought the dive leaders watching half the students puking thier guts out on the boat would have found a clue... but apparently not.

Apparently I missed something.(which wouldn't be hard for me to do) I didn't see where the dive op was being pressed to go out. I know of one particular operation that will go out come high water or higher water. They have gained a reputation of going no matter what. ( They did get stopped by a hurricane a while back) I have had friends on the boat when it was struck by lightning and had to have customers assist in rescues of OW classes that were being conducted. In fact, on their website, they make the statement, In bad weather we might have to find an alternative site. Cancellation is not an option. Sounds to me like they are being pressed to go out, but not by the customers.
Will I dive with them, absolutely not. Will I recommend them, not in this lifetime. Who knows who was pressing whom. sounds to me like a whole lot of people made a whole lot of bad decisions that hopefully won't be repeated.