Ft. Lauderdale 11/12 The Sea Empress AOW

[DandyDon]

Unfortunately everyone was grossly underprepared in regards to safety equipment and we did not plan on things being so bad. I have been meaning to put a safety kit togethor and it is complacency that led me to believe it could wait till after our class dives. I am pretty sure that no single diver could be found on the two boats we chartered with a full set of safety gear. It was sloppy all the way by everyone.

I don't check others I dive with for sausage, storm whistle, reflector, or slate, but I do suggest that they are very good, low cost ideas. I carry even more than that, but that's me.

Good luck on your continued diving...

 

[jagfish]

HI Vayu
I hope your ailment passes quickly and allows you to dive soon. Do be diligent about following up on that.

I agree that it sounds like you bore the brunt of a bad teaching situation. If there was an original plan to surface at 1800 PSI, you had every right to start squawking from there. When you are so new, it takes some hard eggs to voluntarily separate from a group, especially when that group contains more than one instructor. This incident has no doubt given you more insight into this and perhaps hardened your eggs...I'll guess that you might have more questions about the dive plan next time...or be more likely to go your own way if things don't look right.

As Don makes mention to, you should also take into consideration your equipment needs for future dives. I've done a lot of night diving by now, but none of it from a boat. I only have to point myself to shore and end my dive. Making it back to a boat is a whole different ballgame, especially when visibility, current and weather come into play.

For a night dive off a boat, I always have SMB and whistle on all dives, but for your dive, I'd probably also opt for some kind of smallish strobe I could hook to my SMB. An SMB is also really useful if you don't make it back to the line and have to surface. You can then shoot your bag so have you your own reference line while surfacing. This helps you against getting vertigo on ascent if you look at your line as you slowly ascend and do any stops you need to.

Also, as Don alludes to, I always take a predive inventory (at buddy check time) what my buddy has that we can use if things go south. In this case, I'd want him to have SMB, two lights (at least), possible strobe, noise maker, compass, and any other equipment that makes sense for the dive.

Some of the early lessons can be hard ones. Count yourself lucky that this fiasco was not worse with that operator bringing folks into such a dangerous set of variables on a night dive. Take value of the lessons you bring out of this...

Dive safe...

Jim

 

[HowardE]

Howarde, what would your recommended turn pressure be on a night dive, in heavy seas, with the possibility of a long surface swim? Personally, I think Vayu making the decision to turn on thirds was probably a good idea. The failure was not following what he planned to do. That is once he had made the decision to enter the water. Which I agree was the wrong one.

Personally, on a boat dive, if it was a guided tour... I would turn when the DM (tour leader) asked me to do so.

He (vayu) said he had a safety sausage, and signaling devices. GREAT. Surface, and signal the boat by yourself.

Rough seas... My point about that was that a responsible dive op would have forgot about making some money, and not gone out. Sometime in poor weather, business owners have to bite the bullet.

Like yesterday at my colorado stores, it SNOWED ALOT. Did we make any money? NO... Highways were closed, etc. In Florida, after the hurricane, was my store closed? yes... Does that suck yes.

So in rough seas, should responsible dive ops not go out, and risk accidents? Probably not.

There is a dual responsibility here.

I didn't want to harsh on vayu here, but who was pushing to go out?

I was in my LDS yesterday, when the captain said,"we're not going... it's too rough" and the other customers who were wanting to dive, were pressing the captain to change her mind. She stood her ground, and said... "It's too rough... I don't think you'll find anyone going out today" Which I've heard the captain say to other somewhat p'd off clients as well in the past when there's rough seas.

While I think ultimately, the dive op was responsible for going, were they pressured to do so for the money, or were the customers pressing? I don't know if I would give in to 6 paying customers that easily... I would like to hope that I would stand my ground, and say no, but perhaps, I would give in and say, "well... allright, we'll go... but it's going to be very rough... you'll all probably get sick as well"

Like Aabond said... We didn't dive on saturday night... it was too rough. They shouldn't have either.

Jim's point is great... Chalk this up to experience... You're OK... Learn what you did wrong, and apply that towards the knowledge and experience it takes to really be an advanced diver.

 

[PerroneFord]

Howarde, perhaps you don't fully appreciate the scenario he was in. He is a college student taking an academic dive class. That dive class was going out as a CLASS dive for what was supposed to be a 30ft night dive checkout for AOW. Unknown to the students, the plan was changed en route to a 75ft night dive for their FIRST EVER night dive. Again, these are COLLEGE students on a trip booked by their university. Not private bookings by dive shop students.

Vayu in no way was "pushing to go out". However the situation was akin to skipping an Chemistry final from the vantage point of a student. His instructors (not DMs) were taking the class in the water. This was not a situation where a newbie diver was trying to push beyond his experience. It was one where a student in a class had a set of expectations put upon him wrongly.

Now that said, looking back with my life experieinces, I would have refused to get off the boat, class be damned. But as a young 20-something, I don't know if I would have made the same call. As for safety sausages, signal mirrors, etc., yes I'd own them, but the vast majority of these students are checking gear out from the academic dive locker. Vayu just happens to own some of his own gear.

I too hope he has learned from this experience. However, given the circumstances, there was significant negligence to go around. The decision to proceed with dive at the dock was the beginning of the chain of events. The operator should have refused to go out, but may have been unaware of level of divers being put on is boat. The instructors made a poor decision to take the class of inexperienced kids out for a deep night dive apparently thinking they were "under control".

Lots of blame to go around on this one, but I am not going to beat the kid up too badly for not taking what amounts to a final exam for his class. He should have stayed on the boat, but thats a hard call when everyone else is in the water.

 

[HowardE]

Again, these are COLLEGE students on a trip booked by their university. Not private bookings by dive shop students.

Vayu in no way was "pushing to go out". However the situation was akin to skipping an Chemistry final from the vantage point of a student. His instructors (not DMs) were taking the class in the water. This was not a situation where a newbie diver was trying to push beyond his experience. It was one where a student in a class had a set of expectations put upon him wrongly.

I said I was trying not to be harsh on the college kids... How do we know that the dive op wasn't being pressed to go out? Maybe they were just greedy and wanted the money?

I know that I won't dive with this op, just because they could even let something like this happen. I do feel the op IS responsible for it.

It was a WRECK dive... How far from the wreck would you go before you surfaced? If it's a wreck dive, and there's no wreck... Don't you go up and find the boat? Shouldn't the boat be tied to the wreck?

I also think that my point which I've made before on SB is that AOW isn't really a "class" it's an introduction to advanced diving potential. Divers shouldn't be allowed to take AOW until they have more logged dives.

I hope that Vayu continues his diving education, and ultimately gets his AOW cert. There is a lot for him to learn from this...

Like he said.... Rule #1, "plan your dive, dive your plan"

If you don't feel right about it... don't do it.

 

[Tom Winters]

What op in their right mind would be doing student NIGHT dives with the seas we've been having this past week? Even I'm not doing any diving - it's just plain TOO rough.
Also, exactly what good is a DSMB at night? Even HID lights can be tough to spot offshore at night if the divers are not in the immediate vicinity of the boat. Maybe shining an HID up through the sausage might help. The only thing that works is a lighted pole float. I hate lugging them at night, but I know it sure helps the captain track me from descent to ascent.
Finally, there is a lot of confusing signage on the Intracoastal, especially in Broward county. The captain might well have been legal to cruise through a seasonal manatee area. Maybe...maybe not. If it's posted, BSO, Lighthouse Point Marine Police, FWC, Homeland Security, and Customs all patrol those waters, even at night, so they'd have nothing better to do than nail a speeder.
I wouldn't mind having a chat with the boneheads who set this fiasco up, just to find out what was going on in their pointy little heads. Glad you're ok, Vayu.

 

[dbulmer]

Vayu,
I agree with Tom above. And for the record I'd dive with you. BTW a couple things for you. A thumbs up always means end dive - no ifs or buts. If you are not happy with a dive for any reason don't do it. Your biggest mistake was diving in crap conditions - the AOW is 5 dives with a little learning behind it - no more no less.

Get yourself checked out medically and put it behind you - I reckon you've probably learned more from this than your AOW in its entirety and you'll become a better diver for it.

 

[yld1]

Hey Vayu...thanks for posting your ordeal and Godspeed to your recovery. I am new to this sport but I'm with Gregoire on this. I have read a ton of stuff relating to this type of scenario and while it's true I have not found myself in this type of situation I would have no problem going to the surface when I felt that uncomfortable. We're never to old to learn, thanks again.

 

[PerroneFord]

I have NO DOUBT the dive op was being pressed to go out. But likely by the overzealous dive leader for the trip. I STRONGLY doubt it was the unfortunate students who were communicating with dive op. Any academic dive leader in their right mind would have called the dive after looking at the marine forecast. As others who live in the area are saying, the seas were not conducive to recreational diving. In all fairness, the dive op should have gave a firm no. You would have thought the dive leaders watching half the students puking thier guts out on the boat would have found a clue... but apparently not.

Yes, it was a wreck dive. But look at the scenario. The captain parked the boat UPCURRENT of the wreck! So these kids were going to have to fight the current to get back to the boat even if everything had gone well. Since they were doing a 75ft dive on single tanks, and the dive leaders apparently intended to have them all turn the dive at 1000psi (like you might do on a warm, sunny, afternoon dive) this was ill fated from the start.

I agree with you to a large degree about AOW. I know I will have 50-100 dives done before my AOW class in all kinds of water and conditions. However, I am not at the mercy of a university to make this call for me. You would hope that in a full semester of classes, students would gradually gain experience requisite with diving safely in a variety of conditions. Obviously this is not happening. And things may well not change until the university is faced with a student/instructor death, or multiple deaths, before things get fixed.

Leaving 5 AOW candidates in the water while their boat leaves, with the mere expectation that the trailing boat will pick them up is a recipe for disaster. It's fortunate no one died that night.

But the lessons to be taken from this experience for Vayu and others seem clear.

1. If the conditions are bad, can the dive.
2. If you make a viable plan, follow it.
3. Don't dive in open water, particularly at night, without requisite safety gear.
4. If you have a dive leader, make sure you can trust them. If not, do your own plan.

I said I was trying not to be harsh on the college kids... How do we know that the dive op wasn't being pressed to go out? Maybe they were just greedy and wanted the money?

I know that I won't dive with this op, just because they could even let something like this happen. I do feel the op IS responsible for it.

It was a WRECK dive... How far from the wreck would you go before you surfaced? If it's a wreck dive, and there's no wreck... Don't you go up and find the boat? Shouldn't the boat be tied to the wreck?

I also think that my point which I've made before on SB is that AOW isn't really a "class" it's an introduction to advanced diving potential. Divers shouldn't be allowed to take AOW until they have more logged dives.

I hope that Vayu continues his diving education, and ultimately gets his AOW cert. There is a lot for him to learn from this...

Like he said.... Rule #1, "plan your dive, dive your plan"

If you don't feel right about it... don't do it.

 

[LAJim]

I'm far from being the most experienced diver to post on this thread, but I have been a University professor for over 20 years. I can say that someone (multiple people) at that (unknown) campus messed up in a very big way. Colleges don't move up in any rankings when they send their students out on any ill-concieved outing and it takes the sheriff, an ambulance and probably some rescue boats to make sure no one ends up dead. People get fired over this kind of thing. When you participate in a risk activity through a college or university there should be a reasonable expectation of a level of oversight and professional competence that reflects the institution's values and concerns for the safety and well-being of their students. To paraphrase Hamlet, "Something is rotten on the Campus of XXXXX". And by the way, having administered a few chemistry exams, there are many reasonable circumstances that could get someone excused from an exam. If the student had been penalized for refusing to participate in this fiasco, any Dean interested in keeping his job would make the penalty go away in about 5 seconds.