Fins and manoeuvrability

[Zeagle Eagle]

DanVolker, why do you insist in getting in a pissing contest? You are just annoying most of the reasonable people on this forum, not to mention making yourself look like a, dare I say it, nah I won't say it.

 

[scubadada]

The BEST data, will be from people like YOU trying the fins yourself. Magazines like Scuba Diving are no where near qualified to test fins.... Many fins have their own ideal kick shape, and the testers Scubadiving use would not have a clue--moreover, the gear that is tested and paying large ad budgets, will always figure prominently.Any time you would like to try the Force Fins, I'd love to have to do this.....Ideally, a Castor dive, and then a reef dive. If you want to compare speed with the fins you normally use, you can see how well you can keep up with the Gavin and Suex scooters with the Force Fins....and then dive with us again with your normal fins, and see how it is keeping up with the scooters....or..just things like ease in moving up current, or cross current. For precision, there is some nice penetration in the Castor, so you could see some technical precision in a very functional way. I'll be on the Castor Sunday morning on Splashdown...but Guy Harrison still is trying out my Excellerating Force Fins..so you can't try them tomorrow. Probably any other time.For that matter, you can try one of the Gavin scooters also, if you'd like

Thanks Dan,

I will take you up on your offer. I am currently living in Switzerland so it will have to wait until my next visit Nov 13-22. I just returned from 10 days in BB where I got in 12 dives on the Castor and 18 other dives. I frequently swim up through the Castor engine room and commonly start reef dives outside and cut across to finish inside. These would be good tests compared to the fins I know well.

I generally dive with UE or, occasionally, Starfish, but we can work something out. I will PM you in Nov.

Best, Craig

I'd love to read Guy's review. Though I'm a physician/scientist and would prefer high quality, objective data, I'm also willing to evaluate the best data available

 

[danvolker]

Thanks Dan,

I frequently swim up through the Castor engine room and commonly start reef dives outside and cut across to finish inside. These would be good tests compared to the fins I know well.

Sounds like an ideal testing scenario.
I'll look forward to it!

 

[Johanan]

Thank you once more, gentlemen, for the insightful comments! gkrane is right, my original inquiry was about how much the type of fins influence the manoeuvrability and whether some models would make precision diving easier. I'm entering cave diving right now where it is important to avoid silting, damaging the formations, etc. I'm not satisfied with my performance yet. More practice is, of course, the principal solution. However I wanted to know, whether a pair of other fins would make it easier. I use Hollis F1s most of the times.

Nevertheless, the Force Fins discussion was quite interesting, thank you for your opinions! Dan, what a pity, last fall I was in South Florida, travelled from Key West to Pompano Beach... I'd gladly try out the Force Fins. If they really are so superior, especially in high currents, I would consider this investment, but not before trying them. I'll contact you if I come to your part of the world again.

 

[gkrane]

I think we need to get Force Fin to fund our study. Dan can contact them for 5 more pairs of fins and the naysayers (myself and other who doubt the cost to value ratio) can get together with the fans and put them through the paces on this wreck near Dan's place. I think a week will be sufficient. Force Fin will agree that in exchange for fin usage and travel expenditures they will have an objective review by skeptics that will undoubtedly make them much more money when these skeptics post on SB how foolish they were to ever doubt the patented vortex engines. The sale of a few sets of Force Fins alone should cover all expenses.

Dibs on Dan Volkers Suex!

---------- Post added September 27th, 2015 at 12:39 PM ----------

How soon should we have an answer from Force Fin Dan?

 

[danvolker]

We actually have about 4 to 6 pairs of either Excellerating Force Fins, or Extra Force fins, in this immediate area--of owners of Force fins that would be happy to loan the fins out to divers serious about demoing the Force Fins, to see what all the noise is about. So we can have a great group together for this....As far as Bob Evans paying for the travel and trip....I don't think this is something I want to ask for at this time from him.
On the other hand....I could probably get a special rate in Boynton on Splashdown...or from Abernethy on Deep O in Riviera....Or...we could do a shallow/technical dive from the beach at the Pumphouse on the South end of Singer Island.....there is some amazing diving in that area, a lot of swimming, lots of coral and fish, and plenty of weird and powerful currents to deal with. It's free, obviously, and is probably the best shore dive I have ever done in any part of Florida.

Let's try to do this!

 

[gkrane]

I would love to do this but Bob "FF" Evans will need to pay expenses for his fins to be objectively evaluated. It does seem only fair.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I would love to do this but Bob "FF" Evans will need to pay expenses for his fins to be objectively evaluated. It does seem only fair.

If he PAID for an evaluation of his fins- wouldn't that be a little UNfair?

 

[TN Traveler]

Not a snowballs chance in Hades of Force Fins paying your expenses for a fin test. You need to understand that Force Fins in a small business, less than 15 employees. Bob does lots of the finishing work himself. His profit on Force Fins is probably less than you make in a year. It would make zero sense for him to pay for someone to test the fins.

He has refused to sell out to any "big" scuba manufacturer because he does not want to see the quality deteriorate. Force Fins is a labor of love to him.

Be a skeptic if you must - those of us that have tried them and use them, know they are a superior product and are willing to pay the cost. We will try and inform you of why we see it that way, but without you putting out some effort to actually try them, we probably are wasting our time with you.

You can drive a Fiat or a Ferrari - both made by the same company and both with get you from point "A" to point "B". But once you have done it in a Ferrari, you will never be as happy with driving a Fiat. Everyone should make their own choice about what "value" is for them - just don't bash the person for appreciating (and being willing to pay for) something with a little bit more edge (they call that envy) or the product because it provides that something "extra", even if the cost is more than you are willing to pay.

 

[gkrane]

Not a snowballs chance in Hades of Force Fins paying your expenses for a fin test. You need to understand that Force Fins in a small business, less than 15 employees. Bob does lots of the finishing work himself. His profit on Force Fins is probably less than you make in a year. It would make zero sense for him to pay for someone to test the fins.

He has refused to sell out to any "big" scuba manufacturer because he does not want to see the quality deteriorate. Force Fins is a labor of love to him.

Be a skeptic if you must - those of us that have tried them and use them, know they are a superior product and are willing to pay the cost. We will try and inform you of why we see it that way, but without you putting out some effort to actually try them, we probably are wasting our time with you.

You can drive a Fiat or a Ferrari - both made by the same company and both with get you from point "A" to point "B". But once you have done it in a Ferrari, you will never be as happy with driving a Fiat. Everyone should make their own choice about what "value" is for them - just don't bash the person for appreciating (and being willing to pay for) something with a little bit more edge (they call that envy) or the product because it provides that something "extra", even if the cost is more than you are willing to pay.

If Bob is making minimal profit on $700 fins then he needs fire his business manager and adopt a new model. I don't recall any bashing other than some posts like yours insinuating we just can't appreciate the Ferrari. Sounds like the Kool Aid flows well in Knoxville as well, and another confirmed diagnosis of buyer's justification. Wear what you like, just can't ever be sold on thinking a $700 fin purchase isn't me being shorn.

---------- Post added September 27th, 2015 at 06:55 PM ----------

Or he could donate his fins to be used and tested by various people in various conditions across the country. Makes no difference to me other than I dont want to relinquish dibs on Dan Volker's Suex.