Fins and manoeuvrability

[JohnnyC]

SB arguments tend to go theoretical. .thing is, you can try these for free and learn the truth first hand...or it could be argued for hundreds of posts as conjecture

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. You can't try them for free. You can buy them, and if you don't like them you can send them back. That's not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination.

There are two sets of tan deltas on "Special" on the Force Fin website for $495 and $550. That's a pretty large chunk of change out of your wallet for a "free" test.

 

[danvolker]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. You can't try them for free. You can buy them, and if you don't like them you can send them back. That's not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination.

There are two sets of tan deltas on "Special" on the Force Fin website for $495 and $550. That's a pretty large chunk of change out of your wallet for a "free" test.

There are a very large number of Force Fin owners, very happy to let other divers try their fins....I made it very clear already I lend mine out quite often....but for the many divers that NEVER get to South Florida, that I can't do this for, all they have to do is go to the Force Fin forum on SB, and ask to see if there are any owners of the FF near where they live...or that will be at a diver area they are headed to.

The differences are so big, most FF owners really want to give others a chance to try them.

---------- Post added September 26th, 2015 at 07:42 AM ----------

With all the pieces of dive gear divers have to choose from....and decide how much they should pay for....there are very few choices that really impact safety--or how much you will enjoy many dives....With Regulators( which can cost $800 versus $200), there is precious little difference, with wetsuits, and even most BC's....the differences are negligible in safety from brand to brand.

But with fins, the choice really does effect your safety, because nothing else you choose is as responsible for you to be able to swim yourself back to the surface, and to swim to whatever you might need to swim to.
The BC is cr*p in importance, irrelevant, compared to fins.
But still so many have this dollar amount of $100 to $200 that fins need to stay within or below....

And that is why Force Fin owners need to let other divers try their fins....trying is believing, though sometimes it takes a couple of dives for some people to learn the right kick shape for optimum use....versus something like the nasty split fins, that can be kicked any which way, and the owners think that they are fine with this horribly performing fin--but the same bad kick shape on many other fins, can mean very little propulsion.

 

[gkrane]

I would think that a quality regulator (which I think there is a vast difference between a $200 reg and an $900 reg in terms of quality), good guages, and a decent dive computer will offer far more benefits in the way of safety then me not donning an $500 pair of fins. If I felt it were different I would switch out the octo, SPG, and dive comp for the bands that held my spare set of fins; or at the very least add some type of cradle to bring my spare fins. I guess I have never regarded a pair of $500 or more fins as critical safety equipment.

 

[Patoux01]

decent dive computer

Look at the money people throw in for dive computers. I have a hard time imagining people then saying 400$ is an awful lot instead of 200...

 

[danvolker]

I would think that a quality regulator (which I think there is a vast difference between a $200 reg and an $900 reg in terms of quality), good guages, and a decent dive computer will offer far more benefits in the way of safety then me not donning an $500 pair of fins. If I felt it were different I would switch out the octo, SPG, and dive comp for the bands that held my spare set of fins; or at the very least add some type of cradle to bring my spare fins. I guess I have never regarded a pair of $500 or more fins as critical safety equipment.

I am using a scuba pro G250 with the Mark 20 or 25 1st stage (Dont recall which---but was a top tech dive reg 4 years ago.) I also have the Scubapro R190 2nd stage, and Mark 2 1st stage, I did many hundreds of tech dives with in the 90's.. And here the R190 with Mark 2, is bulletproof, lasts forever, and I can do anything with it, that I can do with the much newer and fancier G250 system. And the Mark 2 with R190 is a tiny fraction of the cost of the fancy SP regs.
I will say the G250 reg breathes slightly easier...but it is no big deal for dive appreciation, and if anything ,
the Mark 2 is safer.
Dive shops push expensive dive gear like regs and computers, and plenty of gear that do not really make much difference--except in the showroom where SALES take place.
Force Fins does not typically get sold by Dive Shops, because the shops can't double or more the wholesale cost to you, like they do pretty much everything they sell. A thousand dollars for a pair of fins, is going to be a price point that would not be feasible for dive shop sales.

There are so many stupidly expensive computers I see divers with on the boats in South florida....and the reality is, you can do all the dives they do with a depth guage and timer, for hardly any money. If you have a high VO2 max from cycling, you can do much more with just the depth/timer, than they can with their computers--which model at a ridiculously conservative profile for all the people with PFO's and poor cardiovascular fitness/perfusion.

Most divers have been sold into a system that values some huge floppy 100 pound lift BC as your lifeline to the surface, OVER your having the Fins and self propulsion abilities that would easily get you to the surface. That--is criminal.

As far as safety is concerned, in tropical diving, you should not even need a bc...for safety. In the tropics, the BC is there ONLY to get you neutral at the bottom or mid water....It is not supposed to be a raft or an elevator.

 

[Zeagle Eagle]

"The BC is cr*p in importance, irrelevant, compared to fins."

What a stupid statement. I can get along just fine with a pair of $20 fins from Wal-Mart.

I have tried the Force Fins (Exhillarating) on several occasions. They are nice fins. As a matter of fact they are very nice. They are just not $786.26 plus tax, plus shipping nice. That would make it around $871.11 shipped to my door. I could not tell the difference between them and my Apollo Bio's or my Scuba Pro Jet fins. As a matter of fact I like my Bio's better.

 

[danvolker]

"The BC is cr*p in importance, irrelevant, compared to fins."

What a stupid statement. I can get along just fine with a pair of $20 fins from Wal-Mart.

I have tried the Force Fins (Exhillarating) on several occasions. They are nice fins. As a matter of fact they are very nice. They are just not $786.26 plus tax, plus shipping nice. That would make it around $871.11 shipped to my door. I could not tell the difference between them and my Apollo Bio's or my Scuba Pro Jet fins. As a matter of fact I like my Bio's better.

If this is the case, then I'd put money on your being a "leaf in the wind" diver, if you were on a drift dive on a day the current was up, in Palm beach, Fiji, or MONA PASS, or any other good dive destination that favors swimmers over plankton

And that's OK...everyone has a right to do the kind of diving they like...One person's FUN is no better than another person's fun.

But really, in tropical water, if you have good fins, and you are smart enough to rig yourself pretty neutral for your desired bottom depth, a BC is just a high drag piece of nonsense. It slows you down, and if you don't need it at the bottom for neutral trim, then it really serves no important purpose.
This is how people dove in the 50's, 60's and 70's.
But back then, all divers were good swimmers. Today, many can barely swim. This is where the BC comes in, but it should not..not for this.

 

[scubadada]

These (Force) fin threads are ridiculous. There is no objective data to support one view over another. I actually wish Scuba Diver would resurrect their swim testing of fins and publish them. Find a fin that is good for you and go with it for your type of diving. I spend most of my time drift diving in Boynton Beach and Jupiter as well as diving the Castor in Boynton Beach. I settled on Dive Rite XTs quite a while ago. I'm extremely skeptical that any fin would be significantly better than the ones I'm using. I do spend the vast majority of my time frog kicking. I'm not going to spend 5-6 times the money for some intangible benefit. I'm certainly not one of Dan's, "can barely swim" variety, I'm quite sure I could hold my own against most any diver, including Dan. As I dive locally, perhaps I'll take him up on his offer to loan me his fins, then I could report back after some personal comparisons. Until, this fin stuff is religion, you believe or you don't.

 

[mdb]

There are Zealots and apostles of this or that fin-only way to really know is to try for yourself.

I have, at last count, 12+ pairs of fins in my overloaded dive locker. It goes all the
way back to my original Jets, a great pair of Swim master UDT's, Mares Plana in original
and Graphite, Apollo Prestige paddle style-now the Dive Rite XT's- and several versions
of Bio-fins-my fave the XT stiffer version-I sometimes like the slow scissors kick.

I do agree with Dan Volker that fins are a very important component of a divers overall
experience, and even safety. Take your time. I own 4 pairs of running shoes, trail, gym,
street, lightweight. I think fins are about the same-right one for the dive at hand.

 

[dmaziuk]

Sounds like a marketing theory.

No, not really, the $500 question is how much better these new "delta tan" materials are -- especially given the fact that mass-produced stuff gets a steady stream of improvements...

They're like fold-forged swords: the technology's been around since at least ancient Rome and it's well known to produce superior blades. But there's only two places where making functional (as opposed to decorative) weapons this way was economical: Japan where iron cost orders of magnitude more than swordsmith's labour and Damascus while they had a supply of iron ore with high wolfram content and could churn out tungsten carbide blades. In all other cases it just wasn't worth it and the method was only used to make very expensive ceremonial ornaments.