Finally dove my Oxycheq setup

[Genesis]

I thank God I has a wing with lots of lift.. I was able to keep my head high enough out of the water, those with smaller wings were inhalling seawater ( I never needed the extra lift until then, now I rather have more than just enough)... Its definately a day I wount forget....

Yep.

I've not been willing to do that until now, because the trade-offs with the Pioneer 36 were bad, and I figured the 45 would be even worse!

Now I don't have to - the Oxycheq 45 has NO effective penalty over the 30. None. Zero.

I was shocked that this turned out to be to the case - I was EXPECTING to like the 30 much more than the 45.

It was a PLEASANT surprise.

 

[Bloop]

Yes, the laws of physics you mentioned applies... depending on what medium is in play.

First of all, stability only comes into effect when the forces of gravity are in play. Underwater, we are supposed to be neutrally buoyant (underwater pressures are equaly distributed all over and under). Only CGs create moments that will upset stability. And in fact, the rounder the cross section, the more stable you are. Look at Submarines, they are not flat pancakes but round sausages. So in fact gravity does not play a part in stability at all.
On the flip side, the more lateral surface you have, when rogue turbulence comes, the more likely you will flip...

Then talking about stream-lining, the Oxycheq wings have bellows on the inside, so when inflated the overall cross-section (looking from in front of Diver into his head all the way to his fins) does not increase much. However, if the bellows are on the outside, when you inflate you create a much larger overall surface as well as external surface which increases circumference surface film turbulences (surface friction) which contributes the largest retarding factor in fluid dynamics (read Bernoulli's principle of fluid).

BUT, I don't think anyone would fully inflate their BCs underwater... :wacko:

As to why the weight is mostly in the keel, remember the boat is floating and much of the boat is in the air. The weight of water displaced by the boat is contributing to a force upwards on the boat. Gravity is pulling on the boat and when waves come, the CG of the boat may fall outside the frame of the boat and it capsizes. That's why the CG have to be very low in the boat to make it near impossible for normal waves to push the CG out of the frame of the boat.

And if you are laterally stretched out, more force is involved to roll as you are working against the medium itself which contributes to the overall moment of the action. (Force X perpendicular distance to the pivot)....

But all these are just in theory..... the right one for the right medium.

Remember air is much less dense than water most logical theories does not work in water unless you can move as fast in water as in air.

Please dont confuse and misuse the dynamics of fluid with forces of gravity. More importantly no to misinform the good people of this board.

PEACE!!!!
:doctor:

*******************E. & O. E.***********************

Dan Gibson once bubbled...
This is where I have a little problem understanding how an Oxycheck wing can be more stable left to right (rolling).

A wing that places most of the lift on the outer edge will be more stable than one placing the lift next to the tank near the divers back. That is a fact that is not disputable. I have a degree in Civil Engineering and we did cover Fluid Dynamics. The most stable is where you place the lift high and the center of gravity low. This is why you place the greatest weight in the keel of a boat as low as you can. This resists rollover. The moment required to cause rollover increases with a greater lever arm.

The part of a wing that keeps one from rolling left to right is the outer edge as it wraps around the tank and air finds the highest point. The lift is placed on the outer edge of the tank. If it is placed in the center of the wing, the center of lift would in fact be lower and closer to the centerline of the tank. Less ditance from the center means less stability. I would assume that if the Oxycheq is not full inflated, it would behave similar to a Pioneer wing in this regard. However, for those unfortunate few insist on diving overweighted, stabilty would be reduced when the thing is nearly or fully inflated underwater. Hopefully most understand that is not a real smart thing to do, but I'm thinking one person on this list just may dive that way.

I just don't see an advantage to the expandable center. Bellowed sides catching on sharp objects has been sugested. I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure my 36 lb wing doesn't extend past my shoulders or higher than the highest point on my tank. What am I going to catch it on? If I'm in that type of environment, I dive doubles.

 

[Albion]

Bloop once bubbled...
So in fact gravity does not play a part in stability at all.

Re write the physics books, gravity has no effect under water.

 

[jb2thdoc]

Dont flame me if I read the post incorrectly but...
I would certainly be inclined to disagree that gravity has no function underwater. In the absence of gravity the constant is mass. However, weight is in fact a function of gravity. When you read your weight on the scale that is the force of gravity pulling on your own mass and pulling your mass on the scale. The question goes than, if gravity did not exist underwater than what would be the purpose of weighting oneself? You would simply jump in, and no matter how much weight you added, you would not sink. In fact you know that this does not happen. The fact remains that gravity still exists underwater, but its effects are mitigated by the fluid dynamics of water and Archimedes' principal. This is crappy college physics talking, but I believe that this is correct. Probably should consult the old text book.

 

[Jackknife]

Dan Gibson once bubbled...
Not you Genesis. Those of us having fun with Jackknife.

You're such a hypocrite! I bet you are about to order an Oxycheq wing now. I'm waiting for you to pull off your mask on this one Batman.

You know Gibson's used to be a retail store that went out of business 10 years ago, I guess your carrying on the trend loser, hahaha, what a maroon.

 

[Dan Gibson]

How?

Jackknife once bubbled...



You're such a hypocrite!

 

[Dan Gibson]

Check your statics book. The sum of the horizontal forces, vertical forces and moments must be equal to zero or the body is in motion.

Yes, the diver is neutrally buoyant. That means he doesn’t more up or down in the water column significantly. However, if the center of gravity is not in line with the center of buoyancy, you have introduced a moment the diver must resist. If he does not, he will go into motion (i.e. roll).

An object is stable when the cg is below its center of buoyancy. An object can be stable when the center of gravity is above the center of buoyancy. However, a greater metacentric height creates a less stable object when the cg is not in direct line with the center of buoyancy (i.e. diver is slightly rolled left or right). This is why it is so easy for new divers to roll (turtle) in very negative tanks or when they place a keel weight on the top of the tank.). Just ask a diver new to double feels. It’s king of like being on a knife edge at first.

I would think you might want to go back and read my comments again, a fluid mechanics book and a statics book. And yes, gravity does affect objects underwater. How else would moments come into play? Try and place a large weight on one side, don’t resist and tell me you stay in the same position or roll until the added weight ends up below you directly in line with the center of buoyancy.

Concerning drag, I never said the wing with bellows created less drag. What I do know is that the wings are not that wide and don’t stick up that far to be out of the slipstream created by the head shoulders and top of the tanks. I don’t believe either wing will result in any significant difference in drag. The thing to note here is the shape of the wing and how close it lies next to the tank. The pioneer wings, and I would think the Oxy wings, both lie relatively close to the tank. Bungied or restricted wings would billow out more and not lie flat and close to the tank, thereby increasing drag. Also, restricted wings would definatelt result in a less stable wing when it comes to rolling.

I'm not confused at all.

Bloop once bubbled...
Yes, the laws of physics you mentioned applies... depending on what medium is in play.

First of all, stability only comes into effect when the forces of gravity are in play. Underwater, we are supposed to be neutrally buoyant (underwater pressures are equaly distributed all over and under). Only CGs create moments that will upset stability. And in fact, the rounder the cross section, the more stable you are. Look at Submarines, they are not flat pancakes but round sausages. So in fact gravity does not play a part in stability at all.
On the flip side, the more lateral surface you have, when rogue turbulence comes, the more likely you will flip...

Then talking about stream-lining, the Oxycheq wings have bellows on the inside, so when inflated the overall cross-section (looking from in front of Diver into his head all the way to his fins) does not increase much. However, if the bellows are on the outside, when you inflate you create a much larger overall surface as well as external surface which increases circumference surface film turbulences (surface friction) which contributes the largest retarding factor in fluid dynamics (read Bernoulli's principle of fluid).

BUT, I don't think anyone would fully inflate their BCs underwater... :wacko:

As to why the weight is mostly in the keel, remember the boat is floating and much of the boat is in the air. The weight of water displaced by the boat is contributing to a force upwards on the boat. Gravity is pulling on the boat and when waves come, the CG of the boat may fall outside the frame of the boat and it capsizes. That's why the CG have to be very low in the boat to make it near impossible for normal waves to push the CG out of the frame of the boat.

And if you are laterally stretched out, more force is involved to roll as you are working against the medium itself which contributes to the overall moment of the action. (Force X perpendicular distance to the pivot)....

But all these are just in theory..... the right one for the right medium.

Remember air is much less dense than water most logical theories does not work in water unless you can move as fast in water as in air.

Please dont confuse and misuse the dynamics of fluid with forces of gravity. More importantly no to misinform the good people of this board.

PEACE!!!!
:doctor:

*******************E. & O. E.***********************

 

[Jackknife]

Jackknife once bubbled...




Okay Danster, exactly what are the guidelines and what wings other than Halcyon's are recommended, since you know seem to know so much?

Why won't you answer the question, you brought it up? If that's true that there are other wings that can be recommended other than Halcyon, name them off, manufacturer and wing name?

You won't, you know why? Because you know it would hurt your cause in trying to maintain Halcyon's attempt at monopolizing this industry. Like "puttin your foot in your mouth" huh bud?

 

[mgri]

Jackknife once bubbled...




Why won't you answer the question, you brought it up? If that's true that there are other wings that can be recommended other than Halcyon, name them off, manufacturer and wing name?

You won't, you know why? Because you know it would hurt your cause in trying to maintain Halcyon's attempt at monopolizing this industry. Like "puttin your foot in your mouth" huh bud?

I seriously doubt Halcyon monopolizes any market. I'm sure Dive Rite and OMS sell more wings than Halcyon.

I have never seen any advertisement for any Halcyon product. It's hard to win a monopoly share of a market without having strong advertisements.

Why are you so worked up about this anyway? If the Oxycheq wing is as good as it seems, people will turn around and buy it.

If someone sees a design option not present.. i.e. no integrated STA.. or if someone would rather wait awhile and make sure the wing is as durable as others, why cant you just accept there opinion?

 

[Dan Gibson]

I would have if I had seen the post earlier. I actually work for a living as opposed to sitting around all day.

Why don't you pm MHK to see what wings are acceptable since he is an instructor. You obviously have never taken a GUE class so there is no point in trying to convince you that they don't push a particular brand on anyone. They will show you the difference (strength and weakness) of different products and why to stay clear of certain things.

I would say Dive Rite, Halcyon, OMS and now Oxy Cheq all make a wing that would be acceptable. I do know that they would tell you the little ball on the pull dump should be removed. They don't recommend restricted wings, they don't recommend dual bladders, they don't recommend excessive lift in a wing,.... Why not read the Fundamentals book and take the class. What's the matter? Are you afraid you might look foolish arguing your point in front of a crowd?

BTW, Halcyon isn't my cause. I have no connection to Halcyon. I dive Halcyon because that was what was available to me at the time and it is excellent and I have received nothing but good customer service. If someone comes up with a better product, and I don't count your recommendation as you have no facts, just BS to back up your statements. OxyCheq products just happen to be something I won't purchase based on the way someone acted at OWU. He won't get a dime off me in the future, even if his wing turns out to be good.

Jackknife once bubbled...




Why won't you answer the question, you brought it up? If that's true that there are other wings that can be recommended other than Halcyon, name them off, manufacturer and wing name?

You won't, you know why? Because you know it would hurt your cause in trying to maintain Halcyon's attempt at monopolizing this industry. Like "puttin your foot in your mouth" huh bud?