Finally dove my Oxycheq setup

[Mverick]

Genesis once bubbled...


Oh really? I own a boat. See my avatar? That's the boat. Big enough for you guy?

What happens when you lose the line and come up on a 2+ knot current? With a deco stop? Oh, I know, shoot a SMB. Cool. What if the boat doesn't see you? Now you're 1/2 mile away. You sound the dive alert. They don't hear you. Now what?

Think it doesn't happen? Think again - it does.

I said buy a boat. Never said anything about what size. You keep adding stuff in. That I'm not adding in.

Jon line if it's that bad. Keeps you on the line. Can't loose it that way. Which makes your other arguments kinda fall away. If you don't know how to dive safely. Don't dive in unsafe conditions. But adding a 45lb bc isn't helping. It's adding another problem.

Genesis once bubbled...


I dive in conditions where this can happen all the time. Surface currents down to 20-30' stiff enough that they CANNOT be swam against - you simply must pull yourself to the anchor line, and then pull yourself hand-over-hand down until you're at 20' or so, at which point you are "free" of it and all is beautiful. Until you ascend, of course.

Lose the line on such a dive and you're in deep doo-doo.

Have I had it happen yet? No. Might it some day? Yes. If it does do I want my head out of the water so when (not if) my gas runs out I can be reasonably certain of staying where I can breathe air instead of water? Absolutely.

Like you said, lose the line and you're in trouble. So use a Jon line if you're going to dive in conditions like that. Although, some would ask if it isn't a little risky to begin with. Which makes the thought of not diving in those conditions come to mind.

Genesis once bubbled...


Stuck LP inflator? I've had one. I pulled the coupler, dumped the extra air, got neutral, banged on the inflator a few times, and reconnected it - then didn't use it again during the dive, so it couldn't stick again. No big deal. Use a SLOW inflator, not one of those overbalanced "fast" ones (like SP sells) and you've got quite a while before you do the Polaris imitation. Guess what kind Scott includes on his wings? Yep - the nice slow ones. Guess what kind are on lots of BCs? Yeah, the really fast, grossly-overpowered (and dangerous) ones. You can fix that for about $20 with a nice, cheap, slow inflator replacement.

Halcyon's come with the slow inflator. And nope, it doesn't take quite a while. Reg free flowing and you bump a little air in your wing. It sticks. What now. Keep breething off the free flowing reg and get your bc back under control. One problem is easily fixed. Think about multiple problems. That's task loading.

Last week I was in 50ft of water in high current that even boats have a hard time in. 60lbs of weight on and a 30cf on my back. No BC. But a Drysuit. Vis. Non existant. Can't see the hand in front of your face....... And it was completely safe.....LOL Just have to know how to simplyfy a dangerous situation. And yes, Others dive in much worse. But it is spooky.....LOL

 

[Genesis]

Jon line if it's that bad. Keeps you on the line. Can't loose it that way. Which makes your other arguments kinda fall away. If you don't know how to dive safely. Don't dive in unsafe conditions. But adding a 45lb bc isn't helping. It's adding another problem.

You've missed the ponit.

A jon line is great once you get to 20'.

If you lose the ascent line at 110', you've got a real honest-to-god problem. A normal ascent puts you a half-mile or more behind the boat by the time you surface.

People lose their boats with some regularity. Oh sure, we all try not to have it happen. Nonetheless, it CAN happen, and if it DOES happen then you are in the water until someone picks you up!

 

[Mverick]

Genesis once bubbled...


You've missed the ponit.

A jon line is great once you get to 20'.

If you lose the ascent line at 110', you've got a real honest-to-god problem. A normal ascent puts you a half-mile or more behind the boat by the time you surface.

People lose their boats with some regularity. Oh sure, we all try not to have it happen. Nonetheless, it CAN happen, and if it DOES happen then you are in the water until someone picks you up!

Well now, that's a whole different problem. You said the current was at 20-30 ft. After that it was free and beautiful. So why would you lose the ascent line??? If you're not keeping track of it. That's another problem. If you need to. Run a line to it. So you can find your way back.

In busy lakes I run a line to an anchor line. So I know exactly where to go to get back up safe. If a boat drives over my head when I'm at 50ft. I'm not real worried. If I'm trying to surface. I'm worried. So I run a line to the anchor line. When I want to surface. I go up the anchor line. These aren't high current conditions though. It's a real busy lake. Usually we dive at night. Knocks that problem out.

I understand people lose there boats. But it's not because they don't have enough wing lift. It's bad diving practices. Stop the problem. Before you have a problem.

 

[Genesis]

Yes, I know there is a solution for every problem that begins with "DIR divers do it {insert}."

The rest of us say "bah", and we equip ourselves differently.

Most of my dives are food dives. As in either bugs or fish. I am typically solo, but we do have crew topside. There are also usually multiple people in the water, some diving in loose teams, some sightseeing as traditional buddy teams, some (including my sometimes) solo, some spearing, some just enjoying the reef or wreck.

There are always contingencies. An anchor that comes unset unexpectedly due to a surface current shift during the dive - you go to where it was, and the key word is WAS. If you're lucky the bottom is mud or sand and there is a nice trench for you to follow - if you can follow it faster than it disappears in front of you! If you're unlucky the bottom there is hard and once unset the anchor planed over the surface, leaving little or no trace as to exactly where it went.

You CAN get lost underwater. Not likely on a wreck unless you're narc'd out of your mind or have a gear problem and simply can't get back to where you started, but very possible on a reef dive.

Oh, running a line sounds great, unless of course you intend to spearfish. I use my reel all the time on "lookie-seeie" dives if the vis is questionable, but its damn dangerous if you're hunting.

 

[Dan Gibson]

Of course it does when you consider trim. But one should realize that a properly weighted diver has very little air in the wing. The main point is that no single wing on the market can keeps a diver perfectly trim without the use of the body (i.e. cantilever length changes with the legs) throughout the dive. Since you can't change the holes on the wing during the dive, at some point you must compensate with your body. That seems to be a point lost on many.

The point I was referring to in questioning the expandable center has to do with stability in rolling.

I'm sure the new wing is fine, although I can't agree with the expandable center instead of the outer edge. Correct me if I don't have the expandable gusset pictured right in my mind. I only had the Oxycheq website to look at it and it is hard to see.

Almost all wings out there are good if used properly. Blanket statements from some who have no facts other than this wing is great just don't quite cut it. Yes, I know we are feeding the trolls. But for something to be funny, there has to be a little bit of truth in it. That's seems to be a point lost on Jackknife. If he had some actual facts to back him up, it would make this thread even more fun.

Genesis once bubbled...


It depends on the shape of the aircell when inflated.

I've looked at both in profile when inflated. If you do, you'll understand the trim difference instantly. Irrespective of how much air is in the wing.

 

[Genesis]

I have dove a Halcyon 36 for close to a year and ~100 dives, and now have an Oxycheq.

I far prefer the latter. It is simply more stable underwater in terms of trim, for openers.

 

[Dan Gibson]

Not you Genesis. Those of us having fun with Jackknife.

 

[Genesis]

I don't do jackknives underwater - too easy to cut yourself

 

[padiscubapro]

I was going to stay out this but I have to answer..

I have been on dives where, upon returning to the point where the dive boat was CHAINED in, it was no longer there (part of the wreck was now missing)...

I shot a bag to the surface (tied in) and by the time I hit 20 fsw, I knew all hell was breaking loose on the surface.. I entered the water with 1-2ft seas, a squal moved in and I had 8ft+ chop. The boat broke part of the wreck away, and the captain didn't realize it right away.. He was over a 2 miles away when he realized the boat was off site.. He was dragging a huge piece of wreck so the boat looked like it weas hooked in, he didn't realize it until he saw his loran coordinates... Someone had to go in and free the boat before he could get us divers..

We were in 150fsw of water and the scope was a bit to shallow for the conditions that popped up(although the proper scope would have made the descent line way tooo long). We probably only had out about 200-250 feet of line, (we would have needed probably 500)

I thank God I has a wing with lots of lift.. I was able to keep my head high enough out of the water, those with smaller wings were inhalling seawater ( I never needed the extra lift until then, now I rather have more than just enough)... Its definately a day I wount forget....
There were 3 of us getting bounced around for what seemed like an eternity (in reality it was a little over an hour)

 

[Mverick]

Genesis once bubbled...
Yes, I know there is a solution for every problem that begins with "DIR divers do it {insert}."

The rest of us say "bah", and we equip ourselves differently.

I'm actually not DIR. I do Surface supply alot in a KM17. Not DIR. I dive what I need to be safe. Where I dive usually isn't "SAFE". I dive in Mono Line all the time. Fish hooks all over. Knowing it's there. Because it's always there. Turtles that are up to 2ft in dia. Cats at 5-10 ft. In 0 vis. Black water. 2 safety divers if I get in trouble. One waiting in the water and one geared up on the boat.

My duals are HP100's not LP's. And god forbid Fabers to boot. But it's safe for how I use them. I have backups. Just like when I'm on Surface supply.

Genesis once bubbled...
Most of my dives are food dives. As in either bugs or fish. I am typically solo, but we do have crew topside. There are also usually multiple people in the water, some diving in loose teams, some sightseeing as traditional buddy teams, some (including my sometimes) solo, some spearing, some just enjoying the reef or wreck.

I'm not a big believer in Solo. Although I do it. Oxymoron isn't it...LOL Spear fishing is different. Haven't done that much. But I understand it's much easier solo.

Genesis once bubbled...
There are always contingencies. An anchor that comes unset unexpectedly due to a surface current shift during the dive - you go to where it was, and the key word is WAS. If you're lucky the bottom is mud or sand and there is a nice trench for you to follow - if you can follow it faster than it disappears in front of you! If you're unlucky the bottom there is hard and once unset the anchor planed over the surface, leaving little or no trace as to exactly where it went.

Anchor comes unset and you have a line running to it. You'll know. And can find it. If it's hard like you've said. It sounds like a real smart idea to run a line.

Genesis once bubbled...
You CAN get lost underwater. Not likely on a wreck unless you're narc'd out of your mind or have a gear problem and simply can't get back to where you started, but very possible on a reef dive.

Yea, I've been lost underwater too.... Sucks don't it. On surface supply 2 foot down, You're lost... It is a freaky feeling too...LOL You can't see a compass. Cause you can't see your hand. Even pressed against the window....LOL All by feel and what your tender tells you. Either through the comm or line tuggs...

And have a gear problem with a long hose and a buddy. You're pretty safe. You both can swim back. Loose a fin. Run a line to your buddy. Follow the line to the anchor. Reel your buddy in. That isn't DIR by the way... If either has a OOA.... You're toast... But you have to be ready for it.... Problems are best solved underwater....

Genesis once bubbled...

Oh, running a line sounds great, unless of course you intend to spearfish. I use my reel all the time on "lookie-seeie" dives if the vis is questionable, but its damn dangerous if you're hunting.

Yea, I don't spearfish much. So I don't have a clue as to why.


But floating on a 45lb wing on the surface till someone finds my butt isn't my idea of a way out.... There are much safer options...


By the way..... Nice boat.....