FAKE NEWS!!--PADI to be sold once again

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Please identify all the ones where the instructors work for free. That will help clear things up.
As far as instructors are concerned BSAC at least, probably a bunch of CMAS ones too. Actually we have a PADI instructor in our club who did the whole of a referral course, such that a diver could finish up PADI OW in the Red Sea, for free.

You can pay someone to teach you the BSAC courses if you like but it is not the usual way. It actually cost me money to teach people. Some clubs will reimburse expenses, but unless we are hiring a van or doing something particularly out of the ordinary we don’t.

We teach people so we have people to go diving with. It doesn’t need to be a business. In fact as far as I can see very few people make a living out of teaching diving. I see a lot more weekend instructors working for shops than full time, five days a week, forty eight weeks a year employees.

There is a problem with industries which are ‘fun’. People are so keen to ‘work’ in them that they will do it for free, beer money is a bonus.
 
Put Another Dollar In is not a new name for PADI. I think they've been kind of a greedy since they broke away from NAUI expressly to make more money.
It seems I spend half my posts correcting false versions of history that people seem oh-so-eager to repeat. You can read about the split between PADI and NAUI from NAUI's perspective in this history of NAUI, co-written by NAUI co-founder and instructor #1 Al Tillman. Everything that follows is in that document if you want to check it out.

The people who eventually created PADI were with NAUI from its start in the Houston gathering in 1960. They were the contingent from Chicago, and they very nearly took over the process and became its leaders, according to Tillman. Tillman et al prevailed though, and with them came the vision of a dive agency they had formed when Tillman was the director of the Los Angeles County program.

The problem was that the LA County program was supported by tax dollars, and since the new NAUI program could not use tax dollars and yet wanted to be a non-profit like LA County, it had to find some way to generate the funds needed to survive. It relied heavily on handouts from a dive magazine, including having its offices rent free in that magazine's headquarters. When that magazine was sold and the new owners were not so generous, they were in trouble.

One way they decided they could make ends meet was to focus their training efforts through colleges. That way the students would pay for the classes through the tuition that would have been paying for classes anyway. If students just had to choose between bowling and scuba, the classes would be essentially free to them. (In his commentary, Tillman said that in hindsight this was a serious mistake.) But that was still not working for them, and they were constantly on the edge of bankruptcy. One year they only survived on a loan from Bill High, who later went on to found the PSI-PCI tank inspection program.

In 1965, NAUI decided that the best way to solve their constant money woes was to consolidate and focus solely on California. They therefore canceled the major instructor training program they had scheduled for Chicago. Cast adrift, the Chicago branch of NAUI reformed itself as PADI. Seeing the NAUI mistakes that were causing it to be in constant danger of bankruptcy, they used an approach of getting students through the stores selling dive equipment rather than focusing on college tuition as their primary revenue source. It worked.
 
Mangus ole chap who has made 199 dives

I am fully aware of the genealogy of the dive companies - and there has been many who were established, left their mark on the diving world and slowly disappeared,
Perhaps you can research them and post some more of you vast google knowledge

My post if you read it correctly ONLY referred to the United States involvement

But thank you for going the Google for your reseach

SDM. 111
 
Why don't you help us out here and name all the dive agencies that do not charge for instruction and instructional materials? Please identify all the ones where the instructors work for free. That will help clear things up.

I think most of the club based european ones work with more of a member model than a customer model.
 
In the same history of NAUI cited above, the section on NAUI's decision to focus on college students as its main source of students and revenue includes the competing ideas. As mentioned, when PADI split off, it focused on working with dive gear retailers for its student base, an idea that was first promoted by NASDS. NASDS was originally the National Association of Skin Diving Stores, and it changed "stores" to "schools" when it began instructing. NASDS later merged with and then took over SSI--the SSI leadership now used to be the NASDS leadership.

The club model was really the first way instruction was done throughout the United States. It was very ad hoc and local in its approach. My cousin got all of his scuba training somewhat that way, although almost all of it was actually provided by the salesman who sold him his equipment. According to that history of NAUI, the first organization to use the club method on a larger scale was the YMCA. Although the YMCA was a national organization, by using the club approach, they kept instruction local. They had no national standards then, so what you learned in one YMCA when you got your training might have been very different from another YMCA somewhere else. (That might have changed later before they went out of existence.)

The comments by Tillman in that history suggest that in retrospect he thought both the club approach and the college approach were unsuccessful.
 
Mangus ole chap who has made 199 dives

I am fully aware of the genealogy of the dive companies - and there has been many who were established, left their mark on the diving world and slowly disappeared,
Perhaps you can research them and post some more of you vast google knowledge

My post if you read it correctly ONLY referred to the United States involvement

But thank you for going the Google for your reseach

SDM. 111

Seems like i hit a sour toe. :) Fact is so much less worth when someone with few dives state them. ...

No, you did not only refer to the US Involment, you compared the orgins of the US branch with the value of the French mother company (or rather the valueof what they was sugested to buy), and that is what made me think you confused them. why else bother to compare them? its like the difference between Australian Holden and General Motors. Just the fact GM owns Holden does not make Holden's history the birth of GM.
 
I don’t understand why there is so much hate for PADI. They’re a business. They’re supposed to make money. The more they can wring out of their customers, the better a business they are. The more times they are sold, is a testament that they made money and yet another investor wants to buy in. From a business perspective they are a success. They are the market leaders with no other agency even close. Their materials are first class. I am a lifelong learner and I haven’t seen materials that are so well done, in any field. Their marketing works. What’s wrong with that? They are not a club model, never have been, never said they were.

PADI made me a diver. Without PADI I would not be enticed into this sport because I’m not the “scuba diving” kind. I’m a city dweller that sits behind a desk all day. Withought sufficient marketing, ppl like me would never dive.

I’ve since moved away from PADI because I’ve become more of a diver than a person who dives, so they are no longer fulfilling my needs. But that’s ok. They already did their job, got me certified, made me love diving, and took my money. Good for them!

If they don’t work for you for whatever reason, move on.

Final thought: if PADI never existed, where would the diving industry be today? No one really knows but it sure makes you think. :wink:
 
Like @Dogbowl, I'm another diver who thinks PADI has done a fine job of scuba training. I was certified in 1970 by LA County. After 10 years of diving, I took a 17 year hiatus. I was recertified by PADI in 1997, when my son turned 12. We both did AOW and Rescue with PADI, our last PADI training was in 2005. My wife and daughter both did OW with PADI in 2002 and my wife did the PADI e-learning nitrox course in 2011. For a variety of reasons, I chose to do my solo certification with SDI in 2013

We all had the foundation to become competent, safe, independent divers. Better yet, we all dive today, sometimes, we even have the opportunity to dive together. It worked for us, I would imagine that is true for many.
 
I just found interesting article that private equity fund want to sell PADI. It seems that this might drive PADI prices once again. It is a pity when good organization becomes money greedy monster and tries to squeeze customers without giving them additional value.

Is Aqua Lung buying PADI? With an asking price of US$1.2B

Like Hollis...Suunto...Atomic...Bare...Oceanic...to name a few...you don't sell your life business because you're making too much money...
Scuba Diving is popular to us because we're scuba divers and our enthusiasm blinds us from the realities...the industry fell into a deep hole during the last recession...and never recovered...
Brick and mortar shops still searching for the elusive 130% dive shop markup can no longer compete with the online dive warehouses...
I dove a year ago in Turks and Caicos...a major dive operator...great shop...fantastic dive boats...It was Christmas time...I dove with a female member of their staff...and was advised they had been dead on their ass all year...and everyone in the operation had been duly advised that there was no Christmas vacations for anyone as this was the first time in the calendar year that they had been anything resembling ''busy''...this particular area boasts world class dive sites...I was able to snag two consecutive walk-on dates with no ''advanced booking''
So you want to get into the dive industry...better think long and hard...
Safe Diving...Warren
 
In the same history of NAUI cited above, the section on NAUI's decision to focus on college students as its main source of students and revenue includes the competing ideas. As mentioned, when PADI split off, it focused on working with dive gear retailers for its student base, an idea that was first promoted by NASDS. NASDS was originally the National Association of Skin Diving Stores, and it changed "stores" to "schools" when it began instructing. NASDS later merged with and then took over SSI--the SSI leadership now used to be the NASDS leadership.

The club model was really the first way instruction was done throughout the United States. It was very ad hoc and local in its approach. My cousin got all of his scuba training somewhat that way, although almost all of it was actually provided by the salesman who sold him his equipment. According to that history of NAUI, the first organization to use the club method on a larger scale was the YMCA. Although the YMCA was a national organization, by using the club approach, they kept instruction local. They had no national standards then, so what you learned in one YMCA when you got your training might have been very different from another YMCA somewhere else. (That might have changed later before they went out of existence.)

The comments by Tillman in that history suggest that in retrospect he thought both the club approach and the college approach were unsuccessful.

By the time I certified as a YMCA Instructor in 2008 standards and procedures had been around for a couple + decades. My S&P from the Y has a 1st printing/copyright date of 1974 with numerous revisions. When the office was in Florida materials and standards were being produced for instructors. The accepted text was the Graver manual and up until last year was still in use.

It is still an option but SEI (successor to the YMCA program) put out their own manual within the last year. The SEI standards are essentially the same as the YMCA standards from the 70's. There have been some changes at the OW level. Mainly due to accidents happening in other agency courses that made insurance companies dictate some of them and to look at the risk management of keeping them in.
Most notably the doff and don, a fun exercise and real confidence builder was taken out of the OW course due to a death in a college pool involving NAUI trained students practicing it while not under supervision.

Instructors are still encouraged to add materials and skills based on their local conditions to produce divers prepared to dive in them and to test on those additions. This may have been the basis for the some of the differences perceived in training. The idea was to train divers to dive anywhere with a heavy emphasis on local conditions. You would not train divers in the northeast and midwest with the colder, low vis waters the same as you would in Florida.

I went inactive with SEI(YMCA) this year. There are some differences of opinion involved, mainly due to tech and solo diving, and it was not an easy decision. So I have no actual dog in the fight. Plus SDI/TDI allows me to teach essentially the same class from a classroom and pool standpoint with the same level of knowledge and skills. I was one of the last YMCA Instructors created before they closed. I may, in fact, have been in the last group of three that were issued certs so it was hard when they closed. I only had the chance to teach a few students before no more certs were issued. I was mad at the management. But the program was sound. So much so that I still teach much of what I did then with some minor changes and still put in the same amount of time in the classroom and pool.

As far as the college model not working, they should take a look at the University of Florida and Ball State in Indiana to see how well those are working. The SEI(YMCA) Ball State Program has certified over 4000 divers since the mid 70's with Tom Leaird and his shop being involved in doing this.

From the SEI Website:
"Shortly following World War II, a wide interest in skin and scuba diving developed in the United States. Small independent groups of divers sprang up in organized clubs all over the country. In 1954, a group of YMCA, Red Cross, and National Academy of Sciences experts encouraged the Council for National Cooperation in Aquatics (CNCA) to take a look at the safety aspect of this engaging and rapidly growing activity.

Material was outlined with a view toward setting up a course inclusive enough to produce capable performance in those who elect to participate in this recreational activity. Through the winter of 1954-1955 a test course was directed by Bernard E. Empleton using this outline.

The material used in the course was then published as a textbook in 1957 under the title, "The Science of Skin and Scuba Diving". This text became "The New Science of Skin and Scuba Diving" in the second edition and ultimately went through six editions used by many agencies for over 15 years.

The YMCA, through Mr. Empleton, then developed its own course of instruction and in 1959 adopted its own program and certified the first YMCA Scuba diving instructors. This program was the first nationally organized course in the field.

In 1972, the National Board of YMCAs to hired a full-time scuba director and established a national scuba headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia.

In 1976, the YMCA SCUBA Underwater Activities Program was established. This National Center for Underwater Activities was dedicated February 18, 1977 and the Center provided administrative and technical support while advancing the area of continuing education for recreational skin and scuba divers. The Center also conducted a sophisticated program of research and development and operated an underwater college for divers and those from other agencies including the U.S. Army Special Forces and the U.S. Corps of Engineers divers. Scuba instructors from all over the country participated heavily in the program.

The YMCA SCUBA Program recognized the need for a lifesaving course designed for scuba divers. In late 1977, a committee was convened to consolidate the technology for Scuba Lifesaving and Accident Management (SLAM) into a practical and concise package. The first book of this type in the scuba industry was published in November, 1978 through the combined efforts of several agencies.

In early 1980, the YMCA SCUBA Program achieved a unique status when the World Underwater Federation (CMAS - Confederation Mondiale Des Activities Subaquatiques) granted equivalency to YMCA SCUBA instructors and divers. This distinction positioned the YMCA as part of the world's diving organization composed of some 12,000 diving clubs, 65 National Federations, and 3.5 million divers.

In mid-1985, the YMCA became part of a national committee to develop Instructional Standards and Minimum Course Content for Entry-level SCUBA Certification. On September 1, 1986, the standards were finalized and approved by the major United States certification agencies. YMCA SCUBA became an active member of the Recreational Scuba Training Council (RSTC) which is the secretariat to the ANSI SCUBA Instructional Standards.

As the YMCA program approached its 50th year, YMCA of the USA made a decision to sunset the program, thus ending the involvement of YMCA in scuba.
 
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