Exactly how deep is "Deep Air?"

[TSandM]

I thought people would be interested in hearing about a rare phenomenon, the antithesis of nitrogen narcosis. It happened to me just last week.

It comes when you are forced by a set of circumstances beyond your control, coupled with a "should have planned for this" brain lapse, to do a series of shallow dives on 45% helium. You lose all focus during the dives because you are distracted by hallucinations of dollar signs flying away while you are diving.

Too funny!

 

[Hammerhead]

I can't answer. I really can't answer.

I'm taking this poll to be a reflection of at what depth do you become impaired as a result of narcosis and if I'm correct, then it's impossible for me to say.

In April 2008, I air dived to 213 ft to look for an galleon's anchor in warm, clear waters in the Philippines. I did it safely enough, and was able to draw an accurate map for the (trimix) divers who followed me.

In June 2008, I was lucky enough to dive South Africa for the Sardine Run (60 degree Fahrenheit waters, lower vis) and I was definitely feeling the effects at 100ft.

Last year I did my Commercial Diving ADAS ticket in Tasmania in winter. At 170ft in temperatures of around 43 degrees Fahrenheit, I carried out fairly complex manual tasks, whilst reporting my progress to the surface.

In all cases, I was in reasonably good physical condition.

So what's deep air one day may not be deep the next, I guess.

Now you're all confused, I'll beat a hasty retreat

 

[Tortuga68]

Using your rationale, maybe we should learn to drive while intoxicated?

Kudos to the divers who don't drink and drive as well as those who take precautions to stay safe while diving

God fordbid we should have a deep air thread without someone trotting out this tired old analogy and the matching holier-than-thou attitude... sticking to a particular END that you find acceptable is NOT the same as not drinking and driving

 

[The Chairman]

God fordbid we should have a deep air thread without someone trotting out this tired old analogy and the matching holier-than-thou attitude... sticking to a particular END that you find acceptable is NOT the same as not drinking and driving

That would be a "less macho than thou" attitude, and we simply disagree on the accuracy of the analogy.

I used to work on cars... for thirty years I did this, and for almost half of them I was the Service Manager. A mechanic who drank, even a little, at lunch was next to useless when it came to diagnosing complex running issues, and that included ME. They could do brakes all day long and be almost inebriated doing it (not that I would let them), because these were straight forward repairs. But put present them with an opportunity to have to cogitate in order to proceed, and I knew I would have to wait till the morrow. Once your bovine index moves a smidge off of 0.00, you are going to have issues with creative thought and lucid deductive reasoning. How far off of that mark you are willing to move, is up to you.

I would suggest that there are too many dives being done narced and not the opposite. Encouraging others to dive into narcosis is no different than asking them to drive home drunk, with the same possible outcomes.

 

[Tortuga68]

I'm not arguing with any of that, you missed my point. I stated it pretty clearly, so I don't know if you missed it deliberately or if you're just so into the groove your mantra rolls off your tongue without thinking whether you're actually adressing the point raised or not

Or maybe you're just narc'd?

 

[DCBC]

What exactly are you learning? Learning to adapt? It has been shown in studies that this is not the case, there really isnt learning to adapt, only getting comfortable with skills that let you lead a normal and uneventful dive. When the **** hits then fan you're going to be just as impaired and screwed as anyone else. More to the point though, why the hell would I need, or want to *try* to learn to dive intoxicated when there are better methods and tools for the job?

Thats certainly not true. There is an improvement in performance with repeated exposure (although you are still affected to some degree). The only thing that consistantly dropped for me during repeated testing in the chamber was my reaction time. This was consistently lower than non-narcosis testing.

Narcosis is in some ways similar to intoxication, but it is NOT the same thing. There may not be "better methods" for the job available. You choose what risks are, or are not acceptable to you. You are the only one that can make this choice for you, but you can't make it for another diver.

 

[DCBC]

This is more reflective of your macho baditude towards diving and other divers.

This is also reflective of your arrogant attitude that always seems to prevade these discussions.

There is nothing the matter with the each diver choosing the risks that are acceptable to them and the ones that are not.

 

[DCBC]

I've only been diving since 1969... what would I know?

It's not what you know NetDoc, it's what you think you know.

 

[AfterDark]

I've only been diving since 1969... what would I know?

FWIW, NASCAR was very slow to adapt to Radial Tire technology. I think they still held desperately on to the old technology until 1992 or so. Now it's impossible to find a NASCAR team running biased ply tires. So while some may actively resist their use AND incorrectly assert why many of us switch, the inevitable conclusion is that Helium is making great strides for a simple reason: we see it as a far better solution to diving drunk.

I'm not saying you don't know of where you speak and if I gave you that impression I apologize. I'm also not saying trimix isn't better. I'm saying it's not for me. My cell phone doesn't have a camera either, doesn't mean it isn't a good idea or convenient, I'm just not going to go and buy another cell phone for it mine works. It makes calls and receives them. I've got a DVR that I can program to record remotely. Why? I bought a dive computer that I use as a depth gauge mostly. I bought it because some nit wits require I have it to dive their charters. I'm a simple guy that lives the KISS principle. I also started diving in 1968 check my profile. Yesterday I logged dive 1902 with a total of 1449 hours bottom time. I'm not quite new to this myself.

 

[LiteHedded]

This is also reflective of your arrogant attitude that always seems to prevade these discussions.

There is nothing the matter with the each diver choosing the risks that are acceptable to them and the ones that are not.

pot, kettle etc.

I think the cave divers tend to be the ones more sensitive to the deep air stuff because of losing access to sites. in principle I agree with you DCBC. dive deep air if you want. I don't care. but things change when it starts affecting other people. things like the deaths at mystery sink in orlando. divers get themselves dead, then some of the recovery team gets themselves dead. ...and the site gets closed.