Exactly how deep is "Deep Air?"

[UCFKnightDiver]

Trimix is great if you can afford the gear to use. If not like EVERYTHING else in life we must compromise. Diving "deep" on air for some of us is that compromise. I'd rather drive an SUV they are safer but like trimix gear they are beyond my budget. I also made the decision not to use nitrox as it limits my depth on any given dive which to me is just not acceptable.

I was referring to rebreathers. If your going to dive deep on trimix then you'll be safer (gas lasts longer) and as such the need to carry extra bottles is reduced. IMO rebreathers are the way to go with trimix. Sorry my thought process caused me not to be as clear as I would have liked.

What is trimix gear? You don't need a rebreather to dive trimix.

 

[Diver0001]

How's that working out for ya?

LOOOOOL

Pete is a great guy and so are you....

You both rise above the cloud of chaos that defines most people's thinking..... If you can see them for what they are, both of these posts are hysterical!

R..

 

[Herk_Man]

Deep air is not my personal limit, but I believe that it starts at 100FSW. For most people their bovine index is about .7 or so at that depth. At 150 FSW your bovine index approaches 1.

Too many people look for a dramatic transformation (such as Cool Tech felt) to define the depth they get narced. Paranoia is the SAFEST response to narcosis, but in reality most of us just morph into having the cognitive abilities of a cow (bovine index)... and we are too stupid at that depth to realize it. You're a cow and don't even realize it.

This could be serious given that a cow has mainly one thing on its mind. Find grass, chew grass, find grass, chew grass. WHERE'S THE FREAKING GRASS!!!

Sorry, couldn't help myself, carry on. (I didn't vote cuz I've never been narced and don't have my deep training. What are the current poll results?)

 

[UCFKnightDiver]

This could be serious given that a cow has mainly one thing on its mind. Find grass, chew grass, find grass, chew grass. WHERE'S THE FREAKING GRASS!!!

Sorry, couldn't help myself, carry on. (I didn't vote cuz I've never been narced and don't have my deep training. What are the current poll results?)

Click view poll results or something to that effect.

 

[Herk_Man]

Click view poll results or something to that effect.

Man, my bovine factor must have been really high. And I was just drinking a glass of water! Moooo!

Thanks.

 

[Walter]

I've never been narced

So we can assume you've never dived.

 

[AndyNZ]

What you really need is two polls.... one for people who are trimix trained, and one for those who aren't.

I'd certainly be interested in seeing the difference.

Part of the reason why this debate runs on is simply that narcosis is such a subjective thing. For example, I know someone who is debilitated at 30m breathing EAN32. One "event" is enough to throw them over the edge to the point where they are incapable of making correct choices.

So I can see why some groups recommend an END of 30m. There are enough people out there who do get seriously narc'd at those depths - so why not be conservative?

On the other hand, shallower than 45m I can "cope" with narcosis.... I think. But I am aware enough that my coping is about precise focus - I would love to actually put myself through some controlled foul-ups at those depths and see exactly how impaired my judgement and reaction times are. So whilst I might consider doing a 45m dive on air with people I trust, I wouldn't do it in a "risky" environment.... so wreck penetration on air at 45m? Not a chance.

Bottom line in this debate is, I think, that a subjective opinion is based on personal experiences. But it is also important to remember that just because something hasn't gone wrong (yet) that it makes the activity safe. I'm not being down on deep air, but I would say that I think the only way to have confidence in a personal limit for an END is to put yourself through some form of controlled (but unexpected) foul up situation at depth and see how you respond.

Chambers don't quite cut it, the environment is so different. I don't have any focus on a 50m chamber dive, so how I behave is radically different from a 50m (air) dive.

 

[DaleC]

I use my depth gauge to determine if I am narced. My impairment is a given from the time I enter the water and increases with depth. I choose my personal "MOD" based on experience, training, the objective and such BEFORE I enter the water. Anything that mitigates the dive will decrease my personal MOD accordingly. My feelings may END a dive, but they will never increase the depth or duration. I certainly don't depend on them to determine if I am impaired at depth.

I understand what you are saying. I also already know what max depth I will dive to and for how long. I don't just "see how I feel". This is based on the accumulation of my past experiences at those depths. As my experience and training develops I may change those parameters somewhat for air (perhaps a little deeper or a little longer or perhaps less) but the next big jump will most likely involve He.

 

[AfterDark]

What is trimix gear? You don't need a rebreather to dive trimix.

Need? Check my quote in your post the word need in relation to rebreathers is not there. Do often put words in other peoples mouth or just on tax day?

 

[UCFKnightDiver]

Need? Check my quote in your post the word need in relation to rebreathers is not there. Do often put words in other peoples mouth or just on tax day?

The comment was more so in response to your 1st post also you made it sound to me as if you think tanks have no place in diving trimix thus the comment. But... many many people dive trimix without rebreathers, I would hazard to guess that many more do so without rebreathers. I also think that diving trimix with a rebreather is less safe personally so perhaps I should have simply said I disagree with your statement that you will be safer if you dive trimix with a rebreather.