On Your Own: The Buddy System Rebutted By Bob Halstead

[Ana]

This thread can run forever.

I would change my mind if there's any evidence out there that tells me solo is any more dangerous than buddy or team or group.

I don't think I'd change my diving but I would not suggest anyone (starting with my kids) to go solo.

Just the same, there's no evidence solo is any safer either. So the people against solo will always be against solo.

Comes down to a reality that many refuse to accept. Diving is not that difficult, I know it makes divers feel special when non-divers approach and their mouths open big with amazement, but if you can walk and chew gum simultaneously you can manage to dive without getting yourself hurt.

Things go bad sometime and people get badly hurt or die underwater, but people also fall in their bathtubs/showers and bust their behinds, some even die.

You don't believe diving is easy? there's a thread of a newbie asking for ideas because he (or she) doesn't like it when water hits the face. I'm not making it up, do a search. Of course I can't post in that thread because I will be banned for life if I say what I think. But we all know this person is going to get in the water and dive, maybe not today but tomorrow. Someone will hold their hand and attempt a temporary brain wash so that water in the face doesn't create a full blown panic attack. Can this person fully overcome that issue? who knows, I believe that bad vibe will remain in the background until something else happens. Who knows how many people like that are in the ocean this instant, and nothing happens. They dive their 1 or 2 weeks a year and call themselves divers.

post away I'm already daydreaming about tomorrow's dive.

 

[tursiops]

PADI ,,, just to pick one,,,, does not support per se solo diving.

Why do you say this?

 

[AfterDark]

Semantics has always been a political tool of sorts. PADI ,,, just to pick one,,,, does not support per se solo diving. at the same time ,,, solo is taking hold in other areas. So how do you meet half way and still look strong on your founding safety concepts. you create the term self reliant, you teach solo with that term, to boot. they both perhaps have the same skills but the purpose of having the skills are marketed differently to save face. If ever solo is recognized as a safe way to dive PADI can say they are already there while still marketing it as you are skilled to dive alone but we PADi VIEW IT AS Buddy is still the optimal choice but because of that skill set,,,,,you are not as dependant on the buddy and can function with out one if needed. And that said with no mention as to whether not needed at the time of entering the water or in a lost buddy situation. Much like they handle dive limit RECOMMENDATIONS FOR OW'S. with the use of experience and training.

Or BS for short, got it.

 

[EFX]

The 'bottom line' is clearly stated in the summary paragraphs at the end of the article. It is one that I wholeheartedly endorse: EVERY diver should develop their skill to the point that they are capable, and self-sufficient. Only then, should they 'share their dive with another independent diver that they trust'.

This is interesting. I find the ideas in the last two sentences mutually exclusive. Developing ones skills to the point of being self-sufficient makes you ready to be a good solo diver. How does that prepare someone for assisting their buddy which is what the last sentence above implies? I would change the second to last sentence to read: EVERY diver should develop their skill to the point that they are capable to render assistance to their buddy. The word trust implies that you believe your buddy, whether s/he is independent or not, can render assistance if you need it.

 

[Colliam7]

This is interesting. I find the ideas in the last two sentences mutually exclusive. Developing ones skills to the point of being self-sufficient makes you ready to be a good solo diver. How does that prepare someone for assisting their buddy which is what the last sentence above implies? I would change the second to last sentence to read: EVERY diver should develop their skill to the point that they are capable to render assistance to their buddy. The word trust implies that you believe your buddy, whether s/he is independent or not, can render assistance if you need it.

You missed your opportunity to suggest that amendment to Bob Halstead, who died in 2018. (I merely paraphrased his words in the article.)

But, 'capable' and 'self-sufficient' are not mutually exclusive, they are complimentary. The basic idea is that a good buddy is first and foremost someone that you don't have to worry about. If I am self-sufficient, my buddy shouldn't have to worry about me. If my buddy is self-sufficient, I shouldn't have to worry about them. Because we are both capable, we can also render assistance to each other, in the unlikely event it is needed.

 

[AfterDark]

Say "enough confidence to perform the dive safely" and we agree completely. A certain amount of apprehension is seldom wrong when you're planning to do something which, on a bad day, might kill you. Too much confidence can be deadly.

Executing the dive assumes safely

 

[NAM001]

Why do you say this?

Because you had very few that did support SOLO. SSI TDI and perhaps a few others. most viewed it as a drastic deviation from the buddy precept of training, and then of course there is always the liability of promoting alone. As time has progressed solo is becoming more accepted. the same thing happened with nitrox until they all came around. The last I looked PADI still does not call it solo and PADI IS BY FAR THE MOST prominant org there is for training. They still do call it self reliant dont they???????? Its nice to see more and more teaching it for what it is,,, and that is SOLO diving training. One can make an argument that it is not that rare to find a course but then it all depends what year in its acceptance you are talking about as to whether it is rare of commonplace. today 10 years ago 5 15 . the view for each will be different. Just like it was for VODO gas diving.

 

[tursiops]

Because you had very few that did support SOLO. SSI TDI and perhaps a few others. most viewed it as a drastic deviation from the buddy precept of training, and then of course there is always the liability of promoting alone. As time has progressed solo is becoming more accepted. the same thing happened with nitrox until they all came around. The last I looked PADI still does not call it solo and PADI IS BY FAR THE MOST prominant org there is for training. They still do call it self reliant dont they???????? Its nice to see more and more teaching it for what it is,,, and that is SOLO diving training. One can make an argument that it is not that rare to find a course but then it all depends what year in its acceptance you are talking about as to whether it is rare of commonplace. today 10 years ago 5 15 . the view for each will be different. Just like it was for VODO gas diving.

You are certainly hung up on words. If you were to actually read the PADI materials they DO talk about diving with no buddy, and the course content is nearly identical to SDI's course, if not slightly better.

 

[Colliam7]

The last I looked PADI still does not call it solo and PADI IS BY FAR THE MOST prominant org there is for training. They still do call it self reliant dont they???????? Its nice to see more and more teaching it for what it is,,, and that is SOLO diving training.

Actually, I think that 'SOLO' is a far too limiting term, and that PADI got it right when they went with 'Self-Reliant'. (This is not a PADI promotional statement - I would say the same thing if SDI, or some other agency, had used it.) If PADI were to change the descriptor to 'solo', it would be both disappointing and regressive.

Now, I candidly admit, my initial reaction was much like yours - "Oh, PADI simply can't bring themselves to use the term 'solo', so they came up with 'Self-Reliant'. What the heck does that mean?" Smirk, smirk. . But, on more reasoned consideration, I realized that 'self-reliant' is what the training is all about, what the training SHOULD be all about, and therefore what the terminology should properly be.

Whether I dive alone or with a buddy is, frankly, irrelevant. Whether I am self-reliant is at the heart of the issue. Going back to the article that started this thread, Halstead used the term 'self-sufficient', which is far closer to synonymous with 'self-reliant' than 'solo'. A diver can be a solo diver, and not be self-reliant / self- sufficient. A diver can be a buddy diver and not be self-reliant / self- sufficient. But a self-reliant / self-sufficient diver is just that, irrespective of whether they are alone, or with a buddy.

 

[AfterDark]

You are certainly hung up on words. If you were to actually read the PADI materials they DO talk about diving with no buddy, and the course content is nearly identical to SDI's course, if not slightly better.

Is it him hung up or PADI? Why have a solo course and call it self-reliance if not for semantics?
Like I posted earlier every diver should be self-reliant it's what IMO dive training should stress at every level.