On Your Own: The Buddy System Rebutted By Bob Halstead

[NAM001]

To answer your question:
I dive solo in two ways:
Mostly so far with someone but always counting on my own self reliance more than my buddy. But I also sometimes dive solo in the tru sense of the word as in nobody is with me.

About my post so:
Yes, I was playing (hence ) on the term "solo" implying being alone.

That should answer your question.

To be clear, I was not at all stating that that indeed is the only way to solo-dive - not joining that endless argument.
But to me, with English as a second language, "solo" would be one thing (diving alone) and "self reliant" would be the other. Yes I do know that defacto they can and are used interchangeably. I still stand to my pun and it was just that, no more, no less: a pun.

Thank you and i will readily admit i see both terms solo as being equal to self reliant. thats what makes people different when it comes to details,,,,and that is OK. Thanks for not letting that get in the way.

 

[Ana]

Thank you and i will readily admit i see both terms solo as being equal to self reliant. thats what makes people different when it comes to details,,,,and that is OK. Thanks for not letting that get in the way.

Yes!!!
This is the way we should exchange posts in the "solo" subforum.
Oh you see this from this angle? Cool. This is what I see when I look at it from this other angle. Boom! No drama.

Wowie, hoo ya for getting your solo card. You are an adult and you decided how to pave your path to solo.

The OP quoted some writings from a guy that appears to dislike buddy diving. My opinion on that? I agree that's very close to today's reality, doesn't have to be... But for the most , I believe it is.
The theory of buddy diving is great, it's unfortunate that putting it in practice not so much.

Go dive your dive and be adults about it. You are responsible for your own safety, make it happen.

 

[W W Meixner]

Hey Mac 64,

I agree with everything you wrote above. I would add that I see more stuff while solo diving. It is 100% diving and nothing else.

Sometimes I am spontaneous. On the spur of the moment, I am packing my dive gear and heading for something divable.

Funny thing about my solo diving...in many cases I ended the day talking with people that I saw u/w. I solo dive and then socialized with people I saw u/w or met on the beach or boat.

I am not anti-social. I like solitude and I also enjoy being part of a large group or team. There is nothing better than a big party, on the surface or in the water.



Hi Warren,

I think "anti social" is a little harsh. In many situations, I choose to dive when no one else wants too, and I prefer diving solo to crying in my beer over how no one wants to dive. Whether I am shoreside or on a boat.

"Hey, anyone up for a dive?" No...are you sure...OK, I am going solo.

"See ya!"

markm

Hey Mark...

No harshness intended...I think the term...anti-social...or preferring the enjoyment of your own company has been getting a bad rap...unfortunately the common opposite to social...is anti- social...''not social''...''alone''...is the same thing...how many people are needed for a ''social gathering''...I'm anti-social right now...it's 7:52 AM...I am in my office...on my key-board...alone...there is a squirrel outside on my lawn...but we're not ''buddies''

The term that really needs closer definition as it applies to diving is ''alone''...so often...diving with a buddy we are alone for one reason or another...

Who's a better buddy...a fully dependant diver...or your properly equipped dedundant kit...or should we call it...''your anti-social kit..

Best...

Warren

 

[jlcnuke]

Buddy you guessed my intent totally wrong and I DO NOT like or accept your antogonistic response.

I for your information you are COMPLETELY WRONG.

I plan on getting my solo card.

Yea thats RIGHT.

I plan on doing that.

What I DO NOT LIKE AND I WILL POST IT HERE whether you agree or dont agree, like it or dont like it, my point and i said this on other replies if you CARED TO READ ALL OF WHAT I WROTE

is that I KNOW that if ALL DIVERS SOLO DOVE THERE WOULD BE TONS OF DEATHS IN THE ACCIDENT FORUM.

and that is a fact. disagree all you want you are wrong.

ive said already if you are experienced and trained or just old and crusty and been doing it forever THEN PLEASED AS PEACH TO SEE YOU SAFELY SOLO DIVE. I will be doing it also once I have my solo. Not ALL THE TIME but now and then.

AND I WILL RECOMMEND to unsure divers new divers divers that are not confident or sometimes afraid to not try this at home or in the ocean.

Some people are on this forum making it seem like its SAFER TO SOLO DIVE. That is a philosophy that will get people killed. Not trained experienced people. But anyone thats not that and that reads these few peoples blatant bias against buddy diving. you can warn me all you want but im trying to be a voice of reason. As opposed to telling the world its dangerous to buddy dive.

And the funny part....you KNOW im right.

I know you're 100% wrong. Because if buddy diving didn't exist then the training and certification process would be different and the "I couldn't dive my way out of a paper bag" divers wouldn't exist. They'd all be competent solo divers. That's a "fact" (as in a completely unsubstantiated but logical conclusion based upon the information I choose to assume... just like your "fact").

Your repeated assertion that divers would all be dying left and right is on the same unsubstantiated and ridiculous notion that without the buddy diver system absolutely nothing else in the diving world would change. Which is just as absurd a notion as thinking that every diver would suddenly jump in the water for a trimix dive tomorrow by themselves if suddenly the buddy system disappeared overnight.

You can train to any level you'd like with adequate physical and mental competence. To think our system of "get them just barely able to be okay underwater" would still be the same for people solo diving without any additional training is ridiculous. If every diver tomorrow went through and passed their solo diver certification (including getting the required experience), I'd wager that the accident and incidents forum would have fewer deaths, not more.

If what you mean to say is that "if every incompetent, unqualified diver decided to do diving well beyond their capabilities, experience, and training then there would be a lot more incidents potentially even serious ones" then sure, that would make sense. The absurd assumption that every unqualified, inexperienced, and untrained diver would start doing so is so ridiculous that it doesn't even make a reasonable straw-man argument in this thread though, so please give it up.

 

[Bob DBF]

is that I KNOW that if ALL DIVERS SOLO DOVE THERE WOULD BE TONS OF DEATHS IN THE ACCIDENT

I doubt if the fatality rate would go up enough to be statistically significant. A large number of divers would quit diving immediately because the are uncomfortable with even the thought of diving alone. Another smaller group will drop out because they find it to be less fun. The ones that are left will probably keep solo diving, and as long as they dive conservatively and stay within their limits as they learn to rely on themselves.

Diving solo is not rocket science, regardless of what you might think. Solo is more about diving safely than how much gear one can carry. I learned to dive without a buddy, or a formal instructor, because there was one set of gear. The only time I was in the water with my "instructor" was to practice buddy breathing. My first twenty dives, or so, were solo. That was back in '62, and I am not nearly an isolated case.


Bob

 

[AfterDark]

Excuse me for being blunt, but this semantics over self-reliant/solo is just BS too me. Diving is ALL about being self-reliant, IMO it is one of the important things lost in todays training. Even back in the days of old when buddy diving was THE only way to dive, self - reliance was stressed. Training in NE we have limited visibility to cope with; if buddies strays more that 10' apart then they are no help to each. Self reliance is survival.

Solo diving is what the name implies, entering the water alone, diving alone and exiting alone. Same ocean buddy diving is just sloppy, sometime unsafe diving, unless that's the plan by both divers.

Behold, newly certified divers paying DMs to dive with them a common occurrence, forgive my sacrilege but they shouldn't be diving if they feel the need to be "guided".
IMO 2 adequately trained newly certified divers should be able to plan a dive at the same or similar site they did their OW dives and execute it with confidence. If not then they should stick to a pool.

 

[NAM001]

Excuse me for being blunt, but this semantics over self-reliant/solo is just BS too me. Diving is ALL about being self-reliant, IMO it is one of the important things lost in todays training. Even back in the days of old when buddy diving was THE only way to dive, self - reliance was stressed. Training in NE we have limited visibility to cope with; if buddies strays more that 10' apart then they are no help to each. Self reliance is survival.

Solo diving is what the name implies, entering the water alone, diving alone and exiting alone. Same ocean buddy diving is just sloppy, sometime unsafe diving, unless that's the plan by both divers.

Behold, newly certified divers paying DMs to dive with them a common occurrence, forgive my sacrilege but they shouldn't be diving if they feel the need to be "guided".
IMO 2 adequately trained newly certified divers should be able to plan a dive at the same or similar site they did their OW dives and execute it with confidence. If not then they should stick to a pool.

Semantics has always been a political tool of sorts. PADI ,,, just to pick one,,,, does not support per se solo diving. at the same time ,,, solo is taking hold in other areas. So how do you meet half way and still look strong on your founding safety concepts. you create the term self reliant, you teach solo with that term, to boot. they both perhaps have the same skills but the purpose of having the skills are marketed differently to save face. If ever solo is recognized as a safe way to dive PADI can say they are already there while still marketing it as you are skilled to dive alone but we PADi VIEW IT AS Buddy is still the optimal choice but because of that skill set,,,,,you are not as dependant on the buddy and can function with out one if needed. And that said with no mention as to whether not needed at the time of entering the water or in a lost buddy situation. Much like they handle dive limit RECOMMENDATIONS FOR OW'S. with the use of experience and training.

 

[Storker]

2 adequately trained newly certified divers should be able to plan a dive at the same or similar site they did their OW dives and execute it with confidence.

Say "enough confidence to perform the dive safely" and we agree completely. A certain amount of apprehension is seldom wrong when you're planning to do something which, on a bad day, might kill you. Too much confidence can be deadly.

 

[tursiops]

then you had best eliminate the very first post on this thread by the O.P.

Good point. The OP is hardly an unbiased discussion of techniques and strategies.

 

[Colliam7]

The article posted in the O.P. is a good one. And, each of us probably to some extent reads into it what WE want to believe Halstead was saying. But, the process of 'reads into' reasonably requires that we read the entire article, not simply stop reading after we see something we enthusiastically support, or with which we vehemently disagree. Proper interpretation of this article is also helped by reading other articles that Halstead wrote in his lifetime (as one example, 'Assume the risk and take the blame'. SPUMS 27: 3-1) because doing so helps put the thoughts in this article into context. Halstead clearly believed that divers are responsible for their own safety, and cannot shift that responsibility to another diver.

It wasn't a condemnation of the Buddy System, per se. Rather, it was a reasonable criticism of the misguided assumptions and blind trust, that too many make about, and put into, it. It was a reasonable criticism of the buddy system that is the unfortunate reality in diving today, but NOT a criticism of the ideal. The buddy system does not make an unsafe diver safe. Two half divers do not make a whole diver. When competent, skilled divers go into the water as buddies, it is a good system. Otherwise, it is false security. To quote Halstead: a buddy dive is a 'situation that occurs when two divers of similar interests and equal experience and ability share a dive, continuously monitoring each other throughout entry, the dive, and the exit, and remaining within such distance that they could render immediate assistance to each other if required'. He goes on to say that such a situation is quite often NOT the case.

The 'bottom line' is clearly stated in the summary paragraphs at the end of the article. It is one that I wholeheartedly endorse: EVERY diver should develop their skill to the point that they are capable, and self-sufficient. Only then, should they 'share their dive with another independent diver that they trust'.

It is pointless to obscure the message of Halstead's article by quibbling over semantics. It is disingenuous to assert personal beliefs about the buddy system, or solo diving, as 'FACT' when no data exist to support those assertions. Rather, in the context of the intent of this forum - discussion of the techniques and strategies involved in Solo Diving (the title of the subforum) - it is most appropriate to ask, 'How do I become a capable, self-sufficient diver?'