fnfalman
Contributor
Excuse me. Pre-staged bottles and 1/3 gas rule.Pony bottles? In the overhead?
Emergency training with Air II like second air source
- Thread starter jgl51
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UCFKnightDiver
Contributor
formula1mb@aol.com
Contributor
If you're doing a diver rescue of an unconscious diver, you're not donating anything. You still use your normal regulator and control your buoyancy like normal with the power inflator. If you want to donate your main reg to an unconscious diver and use your backup, have fun! To each his own
Pony bottles? In the overhead?
You should try a long hose primary and bungeed secondary my friend, it's much easier to find than a dangling inflator/octo combo.
So you breath in, take it out to vent...do you have to rub your tummy and pat your head at the same time too? Doing this while trying to ascend in an emergency, possibly dealing with a freaked out diver who's all over the place or even an unconcious buddy that you have to get to the surface? I've had to get an unconcious buddy to the surface in training and it's hard enough with a seperate octo and inflator, I can't imagine it with this contraption. ****ty piece of gear in my opinion.
I'm not sure how this whole concept that you cant breath and vent/inflate toghether got started but I assure you that yo can no problem.
I hear you im not entirely sold on the air2 as well I was kinda given it and since then I have a pony slung with me every dive anyway. My concern is always more with the uneeded complications of an hp/air 2 system not the whole infalation while breathing concept which I've never even heard of anyone complaing of before this.
My only concern with going over to full DIR by adding the long secondary and bungee setup is I dont love the idea of a long hose dangling out in space over my shoulder all the time, ever if the reg is always right by my chin.
my other concern is the same one I've had forever and that is that whenever someone thinks they are drowning or are drowning because of a reg malfunction or they are out of air, they will alwyas always grab the regulator that they see and that they already know is working and that is the one thats in your mouth. So after they do that I switch to my 2nd reg on my neck, but then what? do I calm then down and try to switch back? every time I've seen someone panic and grab a reg from someone they always have ripped out the one in the mouth. So if thats what i expect to happen, then I have a whole new set of issues about dealing iwth whether or not to try to get them onto my long hose and give me my primary back...
I swear sometimes I wonder if diving was founded around everyone being solo, or just a group and every man is responsible for themselves, and then some new agency decided to introduce 'buddies' I think there would probably be just as much outrage and fear as there is about diving solo. My pony tank is always right there for me, its never 5 kicks set behind me and 10 feet above, Its my gear so I know i can trust it etc.
ETA: anyone else chuckle over the fact that someone named ElmerFudd and FN FAL are arguing. Gun owners really are their own worst enemoy most times
If you are hovering and horizontal, it is true, you have to lift your inflator hose higher than your wing to vent. But I don't think very many people are doing horizontal ascents using an Air2 type secondary. To do a horizontal, air-sharing ascent, you need more hose length than most people have, especially folks who are using an Air2. If you are vertical, there is simply no difference in venting a wing or a BC, unless you are considering a pull dump (which most wings don't have).
This statement may be true, if by "octo" you are referring to an inexpensive, lower quality second stage sold specifically for this purpose. My "octos" are the same as my primary second stage, and breathe just as well. The last thing I would want to do is give someone who is majorly stressed by having just lost his gas supply, a regulator which will predispose him to CO2 building and anxiety, and which will require him to manage breathing a wet reg.
And, of course, with my setup, I'm the one who would be breathing the difficult, wet reg . . . and I don't want to do that, either
This statement may be true, if by "octo" you are referring to an inexpensive, lower quality second stage sold specifically for this purpose. My "octos" are the same as my primary second stage, and breathe just as well. The last thing I would want to do is give someone who is majorly stressed by having just lost his gas supply, a regulator which will predispose him to CO2 building and anxiety, and which will require him to manage breathing a wet reg.
And, of course, with my setup, I'm the one who would be breathing the difficult, wet reg . . . and I don't want to do that, either
it_mike
Contributor
Yeah! But does it work with doubles and side-mounts?
We all know which one is better... ;D
We all know which one is better... ;D
vjanelle
Contributor
If you're doing a diver rescue of an unconscious diver, you're not donating anything. You still use your normal regulator and control your buoyancy like normal with the power inflator. If you want to donate your main reg to an unconscious diver and use your backup, have fun! To each his own
Some rescue training has you donate your backgas and purge lightly to try to clear any water obstruction so the person resumes breathing. PADI's doesn't, and I think UTD does for toxing diver.
UCFKnightDiver
Contributor
I'm not sure how this whole concept that you cant breath and vent/inflate toghether got started but I assure you that yo can no problem.
I hear you im not entirely sold on the air2 as well I was kinda given it and since then I have a pony slung with me every dive anyway. My concern is always more with the uneeded complications of an hp/air 2 system not the whole infalation while breathing concept which I've never even heard of anyone complaing of before this.
My only concern with going over to full DIR by adding the long secondary and bungee setup is I dont love the idea of a long hose dangling out in space over my shoulder all the time, ever if the reg is always right by my chin.
my other concern is the same one I've had forever and that is that whenever someone thinks they are drowning or are drowning because of a reg malfunction or they are out of air, they will alwyas always grab the regulator that they see and that they already know is working and that is the one thats in your mouth. So after they do that I switch to my 2nd reg on my neck, but then what? do I calm then down and try to switch back? every time I've seen someone panic and grab a reg from someone they always have ripped out the one in the mouth. So if thats what i expect to happen, then I have a whole new set of issues about dealing iwth whether or not to try to get them onto my long hose and give me my primary back...
I swear sometimes I wonder if diving was founded around everyone being solo, or just a group and every man is responsible for themselves, and then some new agency decided to introduce 'buddies' I think there would probably be just as much outrage and fear as there is about diving solo. My pony tank is always right there for me, its never 5 kicks set behind me and 10 feet above, Its my gear so I know i can trust it etc.
ETA: anyone else chuckle over the fact that someone named ElmerFudd and FN FAL are arguing. Gun owners really are their own worst enemoy most times
I think you have some misconceptions about the long hose setup, and how it is used/stowed/deployed etc. Your primary reg, the one you breath off of is on the long hose which comes down your right side, under a can light/knife sheath/or your waiste strap, comes back up the left side of your body around the back of your neck and into your mouth. It is by far more streamlined than the traditional 40 in hose with the big loop in it for a primary. This primary regulator which is in your mouth is the one you donate in an emergency, and you switch to your back up or secondary reg which is on a bungee around your neck and is usually on either a 22inch or 24 inch hose.
charlesml3
Contributor
I am constantly amazed at some of the bizarre things I see people write out here.
"A 2nd stage that breathes a little harder" <> "regulator which will predispose him to CO2 building and anxiety." That is pure nonsense. If your buddy is on your octo then the dive is over and it's time to head up. NOBODY is going to care if it's not as smooth. "CO2 building?" Please.
And seriously, does anyone really care if a 2nd breathes a little more or less wet than another? Do you really think anyone who's taking your octo is going to complain?
If you're going to do what we all suggest here which is take the AirII for yourself and donate your primary then all of this is moot anyway. You're not stressed. You'll know and expect the Octo-Inflator to be different. So what? Get the OOG diver to the surface and if they complain about how you went about saving their life then they need to put all of their gear on eBay and take up another hobby.
-Charles
"A 2nd stage that breathes a little harder" <> "regulator which will predispose him to CO2 building and anxiety." That is pure nonsense. If your buddy is on your octo then the dive is over and it's time to head up. NOBODY is going to care if it's not as smooth. "CO2 building?" Please.
And seriously, does anyone really care if a 2nd breathes a little more or less wet than another? Do you really think anyone who's taking your octo is going to complain?
If you're going to do what we all suggest here which is take the AirII for yourself and donate your primary then all of this is moot anyway. You're not stressed. You'll know and expect the Octo-Inflator to be different. So what? Get the OOG diver to the surface and if they complain about how you went about saving their life then they need to put all of their gear on eBay and take up another hobby.
-Charles
I think that a person to whom I had to donate a reg is a very stressed diver, and may well be on the edge of panic. Handing that person a regulator which is difficult to breathe, or wet, may be the last straw to cause them to let go of it and try to bolt for the surface. We actually had an OOA situation here go south like that about four years ago. I don't know WHAT made the OOG diver abandon the donated regulator, but something did, and she went for the surface, embolized, and died.
The people I routinely dive with aren't going to run out of air, and if they get a freeflow or a clogged dip tube, they are going to know that I'm within a couple of kicks and ready to provide gas. But new divers, unpracticed divers, or random divers in resort settings MAY truly run out of gas, without the recent practice and training to take the event calmly. Why not set things up for the best possible success, with a donated regulator that breathes easily and dry?
The people I routinely dive with aren't going to run out of air, and if they get a freeflow or a clogged dip tube, they are going to know that I'm within a couple of kicks and ready to provide gas. But new divers, unpracticed divers, or random divers in resort settings MAY truly run out of gas, without the recent practice and training to take the event calmly. Why not set things up for the best possible success, with a donated regulator that breathes easily and dry?
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