Bad experience with PADI OW cert in Bonaire

[boulderjohn]

You got what you paid for. No offense to you, but you're paying discount prices for a professional service and then complaining that the service is not superior.

PADI's priority is a low entry cost, and then teaching you as little as possible as quickly as possible to make that low entry cost profitable.

If you really want quality dive instruction then you need to find a better dive organization or pay more for individualized instruction.

I'm not saying that PADI instructors are bad, they just don't get paid much, and so you aren't going to get much time out of them. Consider paying your instructor for individualized instruction. Your instructor will be making a living wage, and your experience will likely be much different since the instructor is getting paid for his/her expertise.

This is nonsensical beyond belief.

PADI is an agency that certifies instructors, the same as other agencies. It does not set the price of instruction. It does not pay these instructors. It does not make instructional schedules. All that is up to the dive operation that hires these instructors.

 

[tursiops]

This is nonsensical beyond belief.

PADI is an agency that certifies instructors, the same as other agencies. It does not set the price of instruction. It does not pay these instructors. It does not make instructional schedules. All that is up to the dive operation that hires these instructors.

The issues the OP has are with VIP diving, which is surprising. They have some excellent instructors and a very good reputation. The issues are not with PADI. The op should make sure that VIP Diving knows of their concerns. I'd be surprised if the course directors (Kevin and Maarten) didn't show appropriate concern. Only if blown off by VIP would it be worth contacting PADI, and then only if the exchanges are in writing and contradictory to PADI standards. "He said -She said" complaints and personal disagreements or misunderstandings are of no value.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

@BlackMargate, In regards to the mask you’re using, what type of mask is it? Did you go to a dive shop and get an actual real professional dive mask or is it one of those cheap snorkel sets you buy at WalMart or Target?
And the snorkel, same question as above.
And also, do you have any facial hair/ mustache?
You might want to concentrate on the mask issue first and get that resolved because that is nothing but a hassle and an huge distraction having an ill-fitting mask. It should have nothing to do with different mouthpieces, snorkel or regulator, the mask should be able to compensate for facial and mouth movement. You just need to find the right one. Make sure the mask strap is pulled down low enough on the back of your head too and the strap is somewhat snug but not tight.
And when you say you have 8 years of snorkeling, is that just floating around on the surface looking at stuff below or does that include any freediving down to depth?
Another thing I could suggest to take baby steps to get used to scuba diving and gear is to maybe do a discover scuba or get what I have seen referred to as ‘scuba diver’ resort course. It’s not full OW but it will give you more mechanical experience.
Just a thought.
We want to see you and your S/O succeed!

 

[NearlyRetired]

Hi,

My SO and I have been snorkeling for 7 years in open ocean conditions, and we decided to try SCUBA and apply for PADI's OW cert. We did the e-learning, and then booked the practical part of the course with a well-known business in Bonaire.

Our class started with a total of 4 students, and was supposed to take 3 days of 9:30-5pm. In the first morning, another student had various problems that took time to figure out, and the teacher quickly started putting pressure on the class to move faster to keep on schedule. That student had to drop out. When in the afternoon my SO had issues duck diving to the depth required by the instructor, they were also strongly suggested to voluntarily drop out, lest they slow the schedule more. We proposed practicing by ourselves for the rest of the day, and re-test the skill at the end of day 2, which extended our day to 10+ hours.

The second day, we headed to a wavy ocean for more confined dives. The instructor told us that they could only afford demonstrating the skills once and there wasn’t time to answer questions. If we didn’t fully understand the demonstration, we had to look at another student. As we started practicing buoyancy, several issues came up: uneven weights distribution in the rental gear causing bad trim, masks constantly flooding at depth, air overconsumption due to purging masks, people crashing into coral heads, etc. The work felt hurried, unpleasant, and unsafe. After discussing with the instructor, we decided to both fold and forfeit the class.

This experience really left us confused and demoralized about diving. Is this expected for a class? Do SB’ers have suggestions to get a better experience if we tried again, here in Bonaire or back in the US (NY)?

Thanks a lot!

That is unfortunate, but not surprising. We've been to Bonaire a few times. The diving is fantastic. The dive shops, however, can be very rigid and intolerant if things are not keeping on schedule. It's kind of the culture of the island. I wouldn't go back expecting a better experience. Maybe give Cayman Brac or Cozumel a try.

As for rental gear for new divers, it takes time to get used to and often can be ill-fitting. If you end up diving frequently, invest in your own gear. It's so comforting getting the gear that works for your body and preferences. Just one less thing to worry about.

 

[BlackMargate]

@BlackMargate, In regards to the mask you’re using, what type of mask is it? Did you go to a dive shop and get an actual real professional dive mask or is it one of those cheap snorkel sets you buy at WalMart or Target?
And the snorkel, same question as above.

Hollis M-1(plus Fourth Element fabric strap, which is more comfortable for me) with Aqualung Impulse 3, and Scubapro D-Mask Wide with Tusa Imprex II. We always get help from the local store in NY for fit, burning/scrubbing, etc.

And also, do you have any facial hair/ mustache?

No for both of us. I've used silicon paste with success some previous time when I had more hair, but it's easier to shave

You might want to concentrate on the mask issue first and get that resolved because that is nothing but a hassle and an huge distraction having an ill-fitting mask. It should have nothing to do with different mouthpieces, snorkel or regulator, the mask should be able to compensate for facial and mouth movement. You just need to find the right one. Make sure the mask strap is pulled down low enough on the back of your head too and the strap is somewhat snug but not tight.
And when you say you have 8 years of snorkeling, is that just floating around on the surface looking at stuff below or does that include any freediving down to depth?

I've done light freediving to 5m with a weight belt. I don't think we got past 3m with SCUBA. Mask gives me no issues either with leaks or equalization on a freedive. SO hadn't done freediving before, but also didn't have mask problems when we were practicing duck diving in the pool by ourselves.

Another thing I could suggest to take baby steps to get used to scuba diving and gear is to maybe do a discover scuba or get what I have seen referred to as ‘scuba diver’ resort course. It’s not full OW but it will give you more mechanical experience.

Our instructor also suggested doing the Scuba Diver certification instead of OW, but that shop seems to give it as a 2-day course, so it felt like it'd have the same pace or worse. We'll see how it goes with a private instructor these coming days, and we'll report back.

We want to see you and your S/O succeed!

Thanks! We do really appreciate the encouragement and help, it makes a world of difference. We were ready to give up before this.

 

[TMHeimer]

What a mess. If you are near Scuba NY in Yonkers they have a very good reputation and usually do their OW check out dives in Dutch Springs (lake), PA.

 

[Germie]

Ok, from my experience as instructor, there are some things that COULD have happened, but I wasn't the instructor, so it is just what can happen.

You had a group of 4. This is what is allowed by standards. The 3 days is possible to finish a course for most divers. No, you are not a good diver then, but you have learned how to survive under water. But after the course you must be able to dive without instructor. If you are not, then the course was not good enough and here problems start. A lot of divers don't feel ready to dive without instructor after the open water course. And a lot of instructors don't teach the course like this is the goal as with a lot, or with most divecenters you will never allowed to dive without a guide (aka babysitter). So then learning how to survive under water is enough. And this is possible in 3 days for the average diver. All required skills are done, the 4 open water dives are done, the cert is earned, but you are not ready to jump in on your own. That takes more time.

AND, if you have 1 person in the group that is under average talented, this diver will consume most time from the instructor and consume more time than there is. This means then that your 3 days of finishing the course also can become a problem. That there is a person in the group that is under average talented is not a mistake from the instructor. Also the best instructor will then get problems to finish the course in a too limited time. So that this person was adviced to quit your course is the best thing an instructor can do.
I have had such an student too, a person who I finally could certify after 16 dives because he was not able to clear a mask. Because this student really wanted to learn and wanted to try over and over and over and over again I did not say he had to quit. I also had no class, but teached 1:1. I also don't own a divecenter, so I can spend more time when teaching and certify only if the diver is ready to dive without an instructor or guide. But this will in most cases not be the case when doing a course in just 3 days.
And maybe it was possible for you as you were above average talented, then the open water course is a disappointment for you as other students mess the course up. If the student I had signed up for a group course in 3 days, it would be a disaster. He would slow down the group too much if you are not aware of it. Or you have to ignore as instructor all things that are not done well enough to give the cert, but because of paying for the course, you give the cert away even if it was not earned officially.

Private lessons are for you probably better than learning in a group with unknown people. So if you are on Bonaire, maybe you can ask to do a 1:1 course. And otherwise I would do it at home.

 

[dmaziuk]

How many confined water dives are there in PADI OW course and are they subject to the same 2 dives/day limit as the OW dives? -- I mean, if it's more than six dives total and the limit still exists, there's no way you can do it in 3 days without violating the standards.

 

[tursiops]

How many confined water dives are there in PADI OW course and are they subject to the same 2 dives/day limit as the OW dives? -- I mean, if it's more than six dives total and the limit still exists, there's no way you can do it in 3 days without violating the standards.

Three dives can be done per day. There are four OW dives in the OW course. No problem, usually. Some students need more time; they should arrange for that once they know they need it.

 

[boulderjohn]

How many confined water dives are there in PADI OW course and are they subject to the same 2 dives/day limit as the OW dives? -- I mean, if it's more than six dives total and the limit still exists, there's no way you can do it in 3 days without violating the standards.

There are 5 confined water dives, but there is no rule on how many can be done in a day. It is possible to do them all in one day, but it would be a very exhausting day for most students. In a typical class of 5-6 students conducted over two 4-hour days, they are usually very tired at the end of the first session. A private class with a confident swimmer as a student can be easily done in one day.

The great "accordion" for time is the free swimming. The class describes time for neutrally buoyant swimming with a buddy, but it does not define how long that needs to be. During that time, the student is supposed to do things like respond to a request to identify the amount of air remaining without looking at the gauge. (The student should have looked at the gauge unasked recently enough to give a good estimate). The students are to respond to various simulated emergencies during those swims. When you read it all, it suggests there should be a pretty fair amount of time devoted to free swimming, but that amount can be adjusted depending upon total time for the course. I believe that time is critical to student development, and I maxed it so that the last student would be climbing out of the pool at the end of our allotted group time. In contrast, some instructors in our shop minimized that time so they could get of of the pool quickly, which I felt was a grave mistake.

I rarely had trouble getting a class through all requirements in two 4-hour sessions, including a generous amount of free swimming. On the rare occasion that a student was struggling enough to hold up the class, I was usually able to assign a DM to work individually with that student for a while. In very rare cases, we would recommend a private class.

In total contrast to what some people assume, a great time saver was when I switched to instructing with students neutrally buoyant and in horizontal trim. The first of the five dives takes a little longer, but by the middle of the second dive they are breezing through everything. That is why I get so frustrated when I hear instructors say they would love to teach that way, but they don't have enough time for it.