Bad experience with PADI OW cert in Bonaire

[rmorgan]

Ebby Jules is a very good instructor, who works at Divi but also has his own business, www.divewithebby.com. He offers private instruction, and while I have not trained with him, I went diving on his boat and found him to be smart, calm, entertaining, and above all capable.

 

[scubadada]

@BlackMargate

Naming the operator woud be extemely valuable

 

[BlackMargate]

Thanks a lot to everyone for your input! Your takes really explain what happened; we didn't understand that the 3-day course would be tight and so dependent on other students, as we were assuming shops would time it conservatively... when talking to this shop, they presented the small groups as very personalized training and a fun experience. We take safety seriously, and it's totally possible that we are slow students and not a good fit for the fast-track program, and it would have been nice to know that that's somewhat likely, and that other students can affect schedule significantly.

Sounds like we should try private training for the two of us, and probably back in the US. We'd appreciate recommendations if you have any! We'll be in Bonaire for another 8 days, and we're trying to figure out if we should just salvage the vacation and continue snorkeling for now... in that case recommendations for local instructors would also be appreciated.

A leaking mask is your responsibility, IMO

We brought our own masks/snorkels. We tried quite a bunch over the years, and these had a really good seal with no leaks at the surface. My impression is that the second stage exhaust kept blowing bubbles right up the lip and under the mask skirt, lifting it away from the face and causing it to flood from the bottom. This happened mostly when breathing up in the kneeling position while doing skills. When I told the instructor, they told us it's normal and it'd be fixed anyways in the hovering position... that was true, but if I watch videos of courses in a pool, bubbles seem to exit farther away from the mouth and more in front of the mask that under it. Totally possible that we had the wrong posture, or that the second stage was the wrong size for our face, etc. Any suggestions for us to do better here?

It would help if the dive operator were identified

We were with VIP Diving, at Sebastian's reef. The area is indeed mostly sandy, but there are some sparse patches of small corals around in the shallows (brain and blade fire, I think). There was a changing current at the time, so we drifted a few times from where we were trying to stay. Maybe they really were not the right fit for our expectations or personalities.

 

[td275]

I agree with Jim Wyatt, contact PADI and get a resolution. Most likely you can get put into another class/dive shop location. Plus will able to be certified before the end of your vacation. The quicker you can do this, the better you will feel about the situation. Plus, from the sound of it, you two will really enjoy the sport much more. Try and overlook the fact you had a bad instructor/experience. I’ve had that in advanced classes/certs. Make it a learning experience, get PADI to make it right. I’m betting you will fully enjoy gaining the certification and be a great advocate to the sport.

 

[dmaziuk]

We brought our own masks/snorkels. We tried quite a bunch over the years, and these had a really good seal with no leaks at the surface. My impression is that the second stage exhaust kept blowing bubbles right up the lip and under the mask skirt, lifting it away from the face and causing it to flood from the bottom.

The regulator's mouthpiece is not the same as snorkel's and the reg's weight is different. Your bite is different and the seal around the mouth may not be as good as with the snorkel as a result. IME the snorkel tends to catch on things and tug on the strap, that can break the seal too.

If the seal is good is highly unlikely the bubbles would "get under" it.

As to the fixes, it may be as simple as moving your mask strap higher, or lower, on the back of your head. Loosening or sometimes tightening the strap may work too.

 

[boulderjohn]

we didn't understand that the 3-day course would be tight and so dependent on other students,

I was certified in a 3-day course in Mexico during the last millennium. They accomplished that by skipping a lot of the required skills.

This happened mostly when breathing up in the kneeling position while doing skills.

Yep, which is one of the reasons PADI and other agencies have been trying to get instructors to stop teaching skills on the knees and instead teach them horizontally. Instructors refuse to do that because they guess that teaching horizontally takes more time, but it doesn't. One of the reasons is that many of the skills are easier to do that way. This is only one example.

In my opinion, if you look for new instruction, find out if they teach you on the knees or horizontal and neutrally buoyant. It makes a HUGE difference.

 

[Derbdiver]

Clearly a bad Instructor OR and instructor under a lot of pressure / over worked. Makes no difference how big a / well known the business is, doesn't ensure quality service. Classes should not be so hurried especially with new divers, Id complain to the Company directly first and state your dissatisfaction at the service provided, if they do not take responsibility for what seems their lack of professionalism then google reviews and similar social media reviews can be a powerful tool that can have real world effects on their future business. Like any training school you will find bad eggs out there as well as trainers that are just oxygen thieves. There are plenty of good instructors and school out there so don't be dishearten with it all, just don't use them again . If you find a center or trainer that takes your fancy ask on here if anyone's used them nearly guaranteed that some one will perk up and give you advice or opinions on them. Sorry you had such a bad experience, don't worry though there are better, I had a similar experience when taking my son through his PADI Open Water, first school lost their best instructor and I wanted nothing to do with their back up instructor, so changed centers and started again with him easy enough.

Totally agree with GDHLEWIS, I had both my daughters get OW certified this summer in Arizona. My younger daughter had just gotten over a cold and was still congested so she could not perform equalization the first weekend in the pool. The instructor was excellent, he said I know she could probably do this if not for the congestion, if you can get her on a decongestant for the next 3 days I can use a friends pool to complete the skills she missed before the following weekend OW training dives. On Thursday she was able to perform all tasks in about 45min in the Instructor's friends pool. He was retired and not looking for any compensation as he did not do this for the $$$. I gave him cash anyway to cover his time and his friends pool. Both my daughters breezed through the OW dives the following Saturday and Sunday. The Moral of the story is, we had just exactly the opposite experience you did in a place landlocked by desert. Resort Dive Training operates much more like a conveyor belt, and I'm sure they bake-in a certain percentage of dropped students knowing they aren't going to be back anytime soon for skill completion. You might want to see if they can do a skills referral to an LDS near you. We made a trip to Asia in early October and had a fantastic time Diving. I was impressed with their skills after the first dive and it put me at ease for the rest of the trip.

 

[Sascha314]

Regarding leaking mask:
Its probably due to the regulator in the mouth.
It has a larger size than a snorkel, as well you are doing more jaw movement - especially if you have a high breathing rate and you are nervous.
With that there can be small "deformations" around the nose pocket which cause small leaks.
In an upright position there seem to be a higher likelihood for that, maybe because the bubbles have a more direct stream towards that weekness of the seal.

You bascially need to be more relaxed, find out a good position for the regulator. Maybe also tilting the head a bit forward may help. Also later a more horizontal position will help.

 

[Doc Harry]

You got what you paid for. No offense to you, but you're paying discount prices for a professional service and then complaining that the service is not superior.

PADI's priority is a low entry cost, and then teaching you as little as possible as quickly as possible to make that low entry cost profitable.

If you really want quality dive instruction then you need to find a better dive organization or pay more for individualized instruction.

I'm not saying that PADI instructors are bad, they just don't get paid much, and so you aren't going to get much time out of them. Consider paying your instructor for individualized instruction. Your instructor will be making a living wage, and your experience will likely be much different since the instructor is getting paid for his/her expertise.

 

[BlackMargate]

I'm not saying that PADI instructors are bad, they just don't get paid much, and so you aren't going to get much time out of them.

In fairness to the instructor, they did seem to work very hard within the schedule from the shop. They kept working 1:1 with people during lunch break and stayed after the end of class for more 1:1 tutoring. If they don't get paid a living wage I'd certainly be even sadder about the situation.

We are exploring the referrals that people from this thread were so kind to share. Seems like 1:1 instruction is some 50% more expensive per person per hour than the class from the shop, which we'd have gladly taken if we realized it was an option.