Does TEC supersede REC?

[BoltSnap]

I don't see having an instructor card, in general, to mean having higher diving skills than somebody with ASD or MSD certification and experience especially here in my part of the "third" world.

 

[Diver0001]

So, what do you answer when asked, especially on recreational level diving trips?

Normally on recreational level diving trips I show them my PADI instructor card and cite a number of dives. I've never had anyone ask follow up questions. The only time I would feel the need to cite my technical certifications in a recreational setting would be if a particular dive needed proof of having taken a certain specialty.

As for your impression that technical diving is a completely different branch of scuba diving, I'm no so sure of that. To me it's an extension that builds on the same foundation and I see my technical certifications as "specialties". There are obviously vastly different skill sets required to be an instructor or a trimix diver but I personally don't see either skill set as superior or more desirable to the other in the context of recreational diving.

In other contexts you might prefer one to the other. To me it seems completely evident that when people have both types of certifications that good divers are not always good instructors (or good clients for a dive operator) and good instructors are not always good divers outside of a narrow bandwidth of dives.

R..

 

[Diver0001]

The big certs give you a pretty high risk of getting stuck with the worst instabuddy, so choose wisely. NEVER a good idea to show leadership certs unless you absolutely have to. Yes I am an instructor, no I don't want to be an instructor today unless you want to waive my boat fee and pay me to be an instructor. They don't like when you tell them that, so I just don't give them the chance to try to take advantage of it

I know this attitude is common but I take a very different view on it. I personally don't care if an operator assigns a novice diver to me as a buddy. In fact, some of the most fun dives I've ever had were with people who were novices. New divers are often seeing or experiencing things for the first time and the excitement that generates just can't be bought! Just because someone is a novice diver doesn't mean they will be a bad buddy or somehow hold you back.

Most of the time, however, if the operator asks me to play a role in the dive then they put me at the back and ask me to sweep up stragglers. I don't mind this role either.

R..

 

[DevonDiver]

If you're an (active) dive pro, you're supervising less experienced divers every day. It's satisfying, but it's still work.

Vacation dives are supposed to be a break from the norm... a chance to dive for yourself.

Even dive pros deserve the chance to relax occasionally. In fact, it's pretty essential for maintaining your joy of diving.

 

[Diver0001]

If you're an (active) dive pro, you're supervising less experienced divers every day. It's satisfying, but it's still work.

Vacation dives are supposed to be a break from the norm... a chance to dive for yourself.

Even dive pros deserve the chance to relax occasionally. In fact, it's pretty essential for maintaining your joy of diving.

I guess the difference is that I don't see diving with novice divers as work. As I said, I enjoy the energy. If someone asked me to do (remedial) training with a diver during my vacation, that would be a different matter. That's work. However, just diving with a certified diver, even an inexperienced one, is just a dive to me. I don't see it as a requirement that my buddy can do everything I can do in order to be considered a worthwhile buddy. If I had that attitude my options for buddies would be very limited indeed. Moreover, I go diving with a person, not with a rubber clad object wearing flippers, so getting to know new people, even if they aren't the best divers, is always an important part of diving to me, whether I'm instructing or not.

I do recognize what Andy and tbone are saying. I've also seen instructors who worked so much that they didn't take the time to dive for themselves, sometimes for years at a time. I personally don't do that because I've seen too many good people just burn out and stop diving altogether after they stop teaching. We all get into this because we love the sport and it would worry me deeply if I started feeling like novice divers should stay away from me because to me that would mean that the joy people get from diving no longer affects me.

As an example, I once dove for 2 days (6 dives) off a boat with a British guy on vacation who had been certified just before the vacation. I made a number of dives with him where he had firsts. First tarpon (actually a school of big ones), first time seeing an octopus, first seahorse, first cuttlefish, first time deeper than 12 meters, etc. etc.

At first HE didn't want to dive with ME when the DM suggested it because he thought he would hold me back. The first dive was fairly short (40min) because he ran low on air and he apologized for like an hour after the dive that he was ruining my vacation. This guy had heard that experienced divers didn't like diving with novices from his club mates but I assured him that I wasn't like his club mates.

After the first dive I helped him get dialed in, I got him a bigger tank (15l) and got him all sorted during the surface interval. This was the only part of it all that even remotely looked like work. After that we made 5 STUNNING dives together and had a GREAT time both underwater and during the SIT. We clicked and after 2 days it was like we had been friends for years.

I could have written him off or told the DM that it was his problem and that I was going solo but as it was by not being judgmental about it, I had a great time, my buddy had a great time and the atmosphere on the boat was relaxed and friendly with nobody acting like they were better than anyone else.

I know this is anecdotal but I have experiences like this all the time on vacation and I think it's because of attitude.

R..

 

[sheeper]

I have a stack of cards (mostly instructor). When I dive recreational for fun, someplace where i'm not known, I bring and show my SDI Advanced and Rescue cards. I keep my Solo, DM, Nitrox and OW Instructor cards close by...just in case. My tech cards are irrelevant for rec dives.

 

[tbone1004]

I certainly dont hold any professional cert cards, so this doesn't apply to me, but I find it hard to believe that this is true. It seems like dive ops would try to pair you with as similar and experienced a diver as you are.

see andy's comments about cattle boats and work vs. play. If you're on a 6-pack or whatever then it's usually different, but the better answer is to come in with a buddy instead of getting assigned one...

 

[Mouth Breather]

You here this argument all the time on Scubaboard, and I think it is not only wrong, it is just the opposite of reality.

I always show a professional card, usually the highest one I have with me. I almost always go on board as a single needing an instabuddy, and I have never, ever been asked to work with a weaker diver because of my certification. Just the opposite. I am invariably paired with the strongest diver on board. They do not want to piss me off.

If an operator asks "what is your highest certification?"; then I'll answer truthfully and transparently. I'll tell them my highest certification.

I've never had grief, or seen any drawbacks, for doing that.

All most operators really care about is whether you're suitably qualified for the dives they're taking you on. That satsifies their liability concerns.

I didn't intend to get into a insta-buddy qualification discussion with this but you guys have had very different experiences than I have. Likely due to our tourist industry here in SoFla, but a reality nonetheless. If a DM is nervous about someone I guarantee he's getting put with someone he's not nervous about. Now I'm certainly no instructor and am far from perfect but I LOVE diving and do everything I can to be a good diver and a good buddy. Most of the time "novice" divers are fine, we all started somewhere. Sometimes though you get that guy who brags about having been diving for 10 years, only to find that he does so a couple times a year when on vacation. They leave all their gas management up to you, show you their SPG with 400lbs left at 70ft, and so on. Sometimes I just don't want to be in that role. I largely avoid this situation now though by catering to smaller operations and getting to know shops/boat ops.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I make sure before I leave home what the operations policies are with assigning buddies. I have a wallet sized case with all my cards in just in case. In my wallet I carry my sei instructor card and my tdi adv nitrox and deco procedures instructor cards. If they want to see something else I just open the little case and let them pick one. I was told I had to buddy up with someone once. I said fine. They'll fill out a waiver, my boat ride will be comped, and they'll pay me 50.00 per dive. That ended that. On the other hand I've been asked by divers if they could buddy up with me. Never turned one down. As long as they are honest about their skill level and experience. About the only time I would say no, if asked, is if I had paid a lot of money to do a dive for me, for fun, and I judge it is beyond the skills and experience I'd want a buddy to have. It's why I call ahead. It's also why I love the boat in Erie we use. No pressure to look after an insta buddy or even have a buddy for that matter.

 

[DevonDiver]

For me... I have a 'work mode' and it's a state of heightened vigilance and anticipation. Whilst I love teaching, that'd diminish the 'me time' I want to enjoy on a vacation dive.

Its pretty hard to switch that 'work mode' off. I'd be there assessing performance, calculating remedial drills, making mental notes for post-dive feedback. Situational awareness+++. Constant mental 'sub-routines' that run when I'm working.

Having said that, I really don't end up on cattle boats... I've got a good network in the dive industry and I'd be visiting a peer and friend who ran or owned a dive center. I'd be diving other people I knew.

When I do leisure dive for myself, it'd either be technical, complex wreck penetration or perhaps solo photography. I love solo because I can finally switch off that responsibility for others. It makes a big difference.

For myself, I love to dive with buddies of equal or better capacity. I love not having to stress about others screwing up. I like diving with folks who have the same mindset, the same protocols, the same tool set, the same competencies.

If there are times I'd visit an area where I have no connections, I'd prefer to be just another anonymous diver... but I'd still declare my highest certification, or whatever they asked for.

Nonetheless, I'm not on vacation to babysit for dodgy divers. That's the dive operations job...

... and if the center had doubts about the diver, they should address those doubts directly and responsibly....wity the diver. Not ignore them or Teflon-slide the issue onto other unsuspecting guests.

Open Water divers are certified to dive with equally qualified divers without supervision. If that's not the case, then they should be directed to remedial training or refreshers... Not lumbered onto another guest.

I won't empower bad dive centers to run bad diving....if a diver needs babysitting, they probably shouldn't be doing the dive. Grow some ethics and tell them "no".