Does TEC supersede REC?

[tbone1004]

meh..I had a shop in the keys not sell me a Nitrox fill because I didn't have a Nitrox C card on me, I DID have a Course Director Card, a Helitox Tech Instr and Gas Blender Instr card but no Nitrox for me... @NetDoc had to get me nitrox as my "instructor"..true story

not the first time I've heard a story like that, with nitrox especially.... I had a buddy at a cave shop get denied nitrox with a cave decompression card.... which certs him for O2, but he didn't have his nitrox card with him because no one in cave country ever asks. That was the last time he went to that shop....

 

[Wookie]

I carry a nitrox instructor card in my wallet, and a ton of cards in my logbook, which I don't carry. I haven't been asked for a card in a number of years.

 

[Frontpointer1000]

These are always interesting discussions. I show my rescue diver and nitrox certs, that's usually enough for whatever I need. It is interesting to me, that the rescue card seems to be more magical than other cards in the past.

It makes me think about training, experience, and a dive op's position on the magic of c cards:

A friend of mine has about 100 dives... (with AOW) all on one luxury Live aboard in the Bahamas. Many people consider that alot of experience. But think about this: she rents her gear, they handle it, set it up, take it down, and do everything for her. In the warm Caribbean waters.

My son, with 60ish dives (and only junior OW), has been in warm and cold water, fresh and salt, cavern, spring, good and bad vis. Shore, boat, night, day, etc. I mandate that he sets up and carries all his own gear, switches his own tanks, and checks his own gas levels (he does have nitrox cert). He carries an extra mask and often does his safety stops upside down with mask off (this is when we practice drills).

Despite his c card, and compared to my friend's certification and training, I'd humbly offer that my son is a far more experienced and better diver than she is.

In Sri Lanka last month, we were not allowed to dive any thing deeper than 50 or 60 feet, whatever it was, bc of his "inexperience". After the first dive, the DM told him, " dude, you can dive whatever you want, you are way better than most AOW divers."

The cards, as we all know, are just legal excuses for dive ops to manage liability.

 

[uncfnp]

For most all of my diving all they really seem to want to see now is the Nitrox card.

Kind of tied into other posts, on a recent trip to Florida I found I had misplaced my cards when I went to a shop to get my small O2 bottle filled. I had frequented the shop months before and they made a cursory attempt to find it online but finally decided to just give me a fill. Later that week I needed to rent a Nitrox tank. They would not rent it to me despite having filled my deco bottle twice already! Fortunately I had found the cards by then and was able to present it but had to ask why the difference. Seems the liability of renting Nitrox tanks is higher then filling O2 bottles.

 

[JS1scuba]

I only carry one certification card, TDI Advanced Trimix Instructor Trainer, If i cant get on a boat with that then I take out the American Express card, that usually does the trick. At the end of the day you show your highest certification level you have. If you do NOT want to dive with an insta-buddy then don't. Dive with the dive guide if they have one. If they don't then team up with someone with same or greater experience.

Cheers
JDS

 

[Diving Dubai]

The only time I need to show a card is if I go abroad on vacation. Typically I'll show my highest PADI card rather than my BSAC (even though my BSAC is a higher cert) only because I don't want to explain. I'll always take the nitrox card I don't worry about buddies as I dive with my wife.

I'll be honest with my experience but conservative too. Our gear is the first clue to the crew. Only ever needed to move groups once.

On the flip side, when I'm DM on a boat, all I have to go on is your cert and what you say you've done. All commercial ops have seen every permutation of people presenting all sorts of cards and claiming all manner of diving experience. Some is correct, some is a gross overestimation.

While the way people act on a boat gives some indication it's only when they get in the water you really know. Hence if I'm new to an Op I go with the flow. Generally after the first dive or two teh crew figure out who can dive and who can't and who they need to keep a close eye one and who they can let do their own thing (within reason)

 

[boulderjohn]

The big certs give you a pretty high risk of getting stuck with the worst instabuddy, so choose wisely. NEVER a good idea to show leadership certs unless you absolutely have to. Yes I am an instructor, no I don't want to be an instructor today unless you want to waive my boat fee and pay me to be an instructor. They don't like when you tell them that, so I just don't give them the chance to try to take advantage of it

You here this argument all the time on Scubaboard, and I think it is not only wrong, it is just the opposite of reality.

I always show a professional card, usually the highest one I have with me. I almost always go on board as a single needing an instabuddy, and I have never, ever been asked to work with a weaker diver because of my certification. Just the opposite. I am invariably paired with the strongest diver on board. They do not want to piss me off. They want me to have a good time, come back, and recommend them to others when I am done. I usually end up having nice colleagueal chats with the professionals on board. I get to do the best dives, and when we are under water, I don't have a DM trying to lead me by the hand. I have never regretted it.

Let me tell you a story that should illustrate this.

I was diving with Jack's Fish Locker on Kona, Hawai'i, and I gave an instructor card when I signed in. I showed up on the boat and found about two dozen divers in total. We were divided into 3 groups. In our group, one of the divers explained that he was a part time employee of Jack's, and our group would be helping to break in a new DM; in fact, he said, everyone in the group had more dives than the new DM. He was just getting to know the sites.We were jsut asked to maintain contact and finish the dives together. We had marvelous dives, exploring the area at will, going where we wanted to go, etc. It was truly the best set of dives I ever had in Hawai'i.

The other two groups were all OW divers, and their DMs led them on very rudimentary dives near the top of the reef, being sure to stay above the 0 foot limit for OW divers. I wonder if any of the supposed OW divers in the group were actually instructors who felt very smug about having hidden their true certification level. I hope thy had a good time.

 

[DevonDiver]

If an operator asks "what is your highest certification?"; then I'll answer truthfully and transparently. I'll tell them my highest certification.

I've never had grief, or seen any drawbacks, for doing that.

All most operators really care about is whether you're suitably qualified for the dives they're taking you on. That satsifies their liability concerns.

I see that as not only the site depth, but also the equipment to be used and techniques to be employed.

I like using sidemount, nitrox and doing more refined ascent procedures. Showing my highest certification helps broach the subject that I might do things a bit differently than they'd otherwise anticipate.

If they're concerned, I'm happy to reassure them that it doesn't mean I'd be doing anything beyond the parameters of the dive I'm paying to do (i.e. decompression on a group recreational dive).

I think you're only likely to experience 'grief' from cattle-boat type charters. Cattle are expected to follow the herd. Higher level certs distinguish you from the herd.

Low quality dive operations prefer an obedient, unquestioning and undemanding herd. If you act like cattle, don't complain if you get treated like cattle.

I don't patronise cattle-boat charters, so there's no issue for me.

Obtaining nitrox fills can be more problematic because the salesperson at the front desk may not be a dive pro. This means they may not be educated to understand the breadth of qualifications beyond nitrox that also signify nitrox training has been undertaken.

I'd expect a qualified dive pro to understand though... it's part of their role to understand. Even if they didn't recognize a specific qualification, they should recognize the need to check. It's called having 'professional knowledge' and it's part of DM education.

 

[Frontpointer1000]

The other two groups were all OW divers, and their DMs led them on very rudimentary dives near the top of the reef, being sure to stay above the 0 foot limit for OW divers.

I was so glad when I finally got my AOW so i could go deeper than the 0 foot limit with OW.It made the diving so much more like, well, diving.

 

[Frontpointer1000]

The big certs give you a pretty high risk of getting stuck with the worst instabuddy, so choose wisely. NEVER a good idea to show leadership certs unless you absolutely have to. Yes I am an instructor, no I don't want to be an instructor today unless you want to waive my boat fee and pay me to be an instructor. They don't like when you tell them that, so I just don't give them the chance to try to take advantage of it

I certainly dont hold any professional cert cards, so this doesn't apply to me, but I find it hard to believe that this is true. It seems like dive ops would try to pair you with as similar and experienced a diver as you are.