Do you mind helping a noob select gear for the PNW?

[MXGratefulDiver]

Gotta agree with Amy on this one ...

$89 classes ARE hard to pass up ... that's why they offer them. But it's a standard sales trick to get you in the door, where it'll be equally hard to pass up making additional purchases. They're not giving you something for nothing here.

UWS is a great dive business ... they've been around for a long time, and there's a reason why they're the biggest in the area. Some of the people who work in those shops are friends of mine, and ... in fact ... Walt Amidon at the Federal Way store is someone I have a long association with and admire greatly. That said, go into it with your eyes open about what's really involved.

Amy and I have both told you the truth ... by the time you add in your student materials and personal kit, you'll be into this class for closer to $500.

Shop around a bit. Consider ALL the expenses before you sign up for a class. TALK to the instructor. Find out how much class time is involved ... and whether or not you'll actually have access to an instructor while you're going through your student handbook and knowledge reviews. Find out how much pool time is involved. Four hours is insufficient for northwest diving, unless you're an exceptionally gifted individual who is already at home in the water (water comfort is EVERYTHING to the new diver) ... six hours is minimally sufficient for the typical new diver ... eight hours or more is better. Find out how large the class is ... classes larger than about six students will spend more time with a divemaster than an instructor ... which means you're getting most of your live instruction from someone who's training to teach, rather than already being skilled at it.

Diving has a very high ratio of people who learn to dive, and never dive again. The two major reasons for that are (a) it's extremely expensive, and once people realize how expensive it is they often decide to spend their discretionary dollars elsewhere, and (b) people often fall for those cheapo, quickie classes and learn just enough to scare the hell out of themselves as soon as they find themselves in the water without an instructor ... so they don't do it anymore.

No point wasting money going down that road ... many of us went there, and ended up spending more than we needed to in the long run.

Best wishes in whatever you decide. I understand that money is an important consideration. But keep in mind that you're putting yourself into an environment we humans were never designed for ... you'll want to go into it at least adequately prepared to cope with the adaptations your brain will demand of you in order to attain a reasonable level of comfort ... otherwise, you simply won't be having fun and will decide to go do something else for entertainment.

Edit (I see you responded while I was typing) ...

TSandM, and PinkPadiGirl (well and everyone else in here)

This is exactly why I came to you, thank you very much for telling me your opinions, as of course you folks have experience to draw from and aside from snorkeling my bathtub as a child I don't (although I was like the Jacques Cousteau of that old claw foot tub). I did not come in here in hopes that I would only get the answers that were comfy, I wanted (and have gotten) good solid answers, great information, and strong recommendations from folks whos opinions I respect and appreciate. I think I am going to skip the class at UWS. It would behoove me to take a better class I suppose. I am also someone who gos to the gun range often so I know a bit about hobbies that are expensive and can be safely enjoyed with a little experience, common sense, and education. I would never give someone a loaded firearm and say "Thats the hole the bullet comes out of, thats the target over there, so enjoy" and although I don't know SCUBA I do know it well enough (and only well enough) to know that it is not something to take lightly, as it could certainly have serious consequences (the poor man at Alki recently for instance). So back to the drawing board I guess. If you are not a diver you do not know that one class would be significantly different than another, nor do you know the right questions to ask someone who would know the answers. I appreciate ALL of your responses, and the time you have spent answering my silly questions. I hope to one day see you folks under water.

I like to tell my students that there are no silly questions ... if you need to ask, you need to know.

By all means if you want some recommendations on good instructors in the area, drop me a PM. I don't normally teach OW classes anymore ... but I do know who the good instructors are. Some of them do work for UWS, by the way, but they won't be the ones teaching those $89 classes.

Consider a longer, more expensive class a good investment ... if you decide to keep diving, it'll pay more dividends than you can imagine ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[VooDooGasMan]

I don't know why you want others to belive that you will be into the $500 range on the UWS divers fair $89 special, you do have to pay for book or cd instructional kit, thats it.

Now UWS brings in alot of new divers from it, and where ever there geographical area is, is where they will get air at, and classes, plus diveware.

So the cost is more like $250, you can rent, but at the fair you can buy a mask that fits and finns. Gloves and boots are only needed if you are to dive in colder water than tropics.


Bigfame your decion is a thought that is good instruction as you live and want to dive here and will need to be in a tighter dive group as you don't have any dive buddys that can teach you the ropes after certification.

Another tip is usaully you buy the gear from a dive shop, use their instructor, air is given at reduced rates or free sometimes and they can fix the gear as they sell the particular brand, Im sure Dandydon has already explained this sceniaro to ya.

 

[lamont]

Honestly, you don't really know anything about diving or diving in the PNW. You might take the class and decide that diving or coldwater diving isn't for you.

I'd stick with the basics and rent everything else for the course.

For example, up here you don't really want a wetsuit, you want a drysuit. But a good drysuit will set you back $2000-$3000 which is a lot of money only to find out that you don't like diving or PNW diving in the course. It would also make the course that much harder, particularly if you're going to take an $89 course at UWS where they'll move you through it all pretty quickly. But a wetsuit up here is a pretty big mistake. So what do you? Rent a wetsuit in the course and deal with it, it'll put some hair on your chest. The sound right now has warmed up and is 52-54F, so its tolerable in a wetsuit, particularly with the 30-40 minute dives that you'll be doing, and particularly since without good technique you'll be exerting yourself a whole lot more and warming yourself up.

So, it sounds like you made a good decision with the neoprene boots with a larger sole with a dual purpose that you can use outside of diving.

Your snorkel will probably eventually get used. I bought the cheapest fold up scubapro snorkel I could find which worked for about 3-4 years until I wound up in hawaii and wanted to do actual snorkelling, so I bought a fancier one with a purge and the corrugated hose and a big more length to it.

As for masks, you really don't understand mask fitting at this stage of the game, so you need someone who will help you. I found UWS to be completely useless in this regard when I started out and the salespeople there wouldn't really tell me how to fit a mask. They had some suggestions like putting it on your face without the strap on, sucking in through your nose and seeing if it falls off your face. That's good but with enough suction you can make just about any mask fit that way. You want someone that can look at your face and tell you if you've got a narrow or wide face and then suggest the appropriate masks that they sell. I'd also advise against masks with purges and against the masks that try to give you a wide field of view through having additional glass panels on the side. What you want is a lower volume mask so that if its filled up with water you can purge the water out of the mask with a single strong exhale. If you've got one of the huge masks that try to optimize for field of view you can wind up not being able to clear your mask of water with a single breath, which will make the mask clearing skill harder in class. So, I would advise against the more complicated looking masks with more bells and whistles, go for something simple that fits well.

And I'll go out on a limb and I'd suggest XL scubapro jetfins for fins. Either they'll work for you and they'll be the last fins you'll ever own, or they'll have pretty good resale value on ebay if you want to buy some pricier split-fins later.

For gloves, go with some heavy 5mm neoprene gloves with 5-fingers. You can still use those with a drysuit until you go to drygloves, and if your drygloves have an inner wrist seal then if your forget/tear your drygloves the wetgloves will get used as a backup.

After that, I'd stop. Everything else requires choices that you don't know enough about in order to make a decision. You might think you'll just buy a console since that's obvious, but a lot of people don't like those. You might buy a dive computer, but the options are nearly endless and prices range from about $250-$2000. BCDs can be standard jacket BCs, back-inflates or BP/W setups and there's tons of variations between them. You might thing you could at least buy a backup regulator, but there's different opinions there as well (detuned/cheap reguator, high price/high performance regulator, or inflator/reg combos). It took me about 3 months of research after my OW course before I started to buy additional gear.

That's my $0.02

 

[VooDooGasMan]

Actually I called a couple of UWS stores while filling tanks just now, The whole certification class is $169, to rent snorkling gear is $20, So add gas and food for a weekend $250 total and certified.

Just bought brittany plane ticket, now total $500 for her to certify and legaly dive on vacations now that will be a good birthday present.


Happy Diving.

 

[TSandM]

Either they'll work for you and they'll be the last fins you'll ever own, or they'll have pretty good resale value on ebay if you want to buy some pricier split-fins later.

This is a great piece of advice. Jetfins sell like hotcakes on eBay and for close to what they cost new. I know, because I've tried to buy them any number of times!

 

[DandyDon]

Hey this is great. I wanted to be friendly and helpful to the new member in reply to his PM, but I knew that you local members would know more about what is available and what works best locally. I dived Puget one weekend and learned from some of my mistakes, but nothing like the beneficial knowledge base on this one thread. And then y'all got off on the bargain priced course! Super.

I image that BigFame and anyone else who reads this is going to get confused for a while, :confued: hell I'm confused on some of it, but still have great advice for the decisions.

 

[BigFame]

Oh I am confused for sure, I have a lot more homework to do. Hell some of the terms used here are totally over my head. I appreciate all the info guess I am further from certified than I thought I was. Appreciate your recommending I ask the locals Don has certainly been beneficial.

 

[DandyDon]

Don has certainly been beneficial.

Hardly. I encourage new members to post on their local forums frequently but this was a great first local thread.

 

[VooDooGasMan]

I was confused to about this divers fair price, the other diveshops and affiliated have sent the message it was a gimmick, Bob even says amy and I told you the truth it's $500.

The truth be told, I sided with him for good instruction, I'm thinkin more as he say's Pm me for recomendations, is just a gimmick to get you to use his buddy's.

Bottom line, every instructor takes a class, either passes or fails. The longer you teach the better you get at sending info on diving in the short time of a class.

My wife is visiting relatives as this devolopement on divers fair class came up, so we went for it.

I always told her family to do it on vacation at a resort, there is no travel time, study before you go.

To do it in wa state you drive to a pool, go to a dive site, pool, dive site, Oh yea classroom, your in the car more than the class.

But in the wifes relatives situation she will be driven around so she will be relaxed the whole time.

plus my wife has done over 100 dives this year, 74# of lingcod in the freezer, so brittany will pass in flying colors.

It is just a certification course, and she will learn after that HOW TO BE A GREAT DIVER UPON HER OWN, AS EACH DIVE WILL BE A LEARNING EXPREIENCE.

So the confusion is over for me and yes dandy don glad this thread happened in to weeks there will be another certified diver in america. Bigfame maybe you should take advantage of this bargain class, and go diving with bob and learn the rest with a diveclub or dive buddy's online.


Happy Diving

 

[TSandM]

I'm thinkin more as he say's Pm me for recomendations, is just a gimmick to get you to use his buddy's.

This is really quite unfair. Bob is a superb instructor (I know, he was my mentor) and I guarantee you that his only concern is that OP have a good class that readies him properly for PNW diving. Both Bob and I disagree with you to an extent, in that, although no class gives you the experience and maturity that comes from frequent diving, some classes prepare you better for our local diving than others, and some instructors have higher standards for certifying a diver than others. Both Bob and I would like to see people get an education that readies them for diving here, so they'll truly enjoy it and continue to do it. That's all.