Do you dive with or without your snorkel attached and why?

[archman]

I have never observed exhaustion brought about by CO2 build-up directly caused by dead spaces in my snorkel. Yes, I am ashamed that I must freely here confess that I do carry, and sometimes find useful, the dreaded and murderous---by some accounts--SNORK.

Again, I would posit that were the snorkel dangerous in this stated manner, we would find resorts literally littered with the cadavers of snorkelers murdered by the ferocious beasts!! :11:

Yup. If dead space were really an issue, we'd have made the necessary corrections a long time ago. Like a lot of the scuba-safety topics on this board, it's interesting but on the barely credible range of actual health concern. I believe such concerns have been referred to as "clinically insignificant" throughout many research studies. I may not be a diving physician to deliver the cast-iron opinion, but I do possess a great deal of college and experiential dive medical knowledge, have taught students for many years, and know several diving and/or respiratory doctors; my lungs suffer scarring from a childhood ailment, so it's in my best interest to thoroughly know about the actual risks of non-gas exchange volumes ("dead space").

If you want that extra .001% (I'm wildly guessing) safety factor, don't breathe too hard into your equipment for prolonged periods. If your divemaster or expedition leader recommends wearing a snorkel, listen to the man/woman. Like much of our scuba gear, a snorkel is best utilized in particular environments and dive conditions. Very often you should have one, very often it may be unnecessary (and) possibly a hassle. Pick your battles.

 

[lamont]

Yeah, I got tired of the old one though.

I'll get tired of Agent Smith pretty quick, but it made me chuckle...

I considered last night doing a Shaka-Zulu of movie-related images, but I don't think I want to work that hard...

found a new one that i like... i think this one is a little less common...

 

[MASS-Diver]

If your divemaster or expedition leader recommends wearing a snorkel, listen to the man/woman. Like much of our scuba gear, a snorkel is best utilized in particular environments and dive conditions. Very often you should have one, very often it may be unnecessary (and) possibly a hassle. Pick your battles.

Even the PADI OW mannual talks about the dangerous of Co2 buildup created by the dead space in a reg or snorkel. The buildup leads to people sucking down gas (let me guess all your new students have great gas consumption) and a decreased ability to deal with emergencies. Jeez, do yourself a favor and backoff on this one - the dangerous of Co2 are well recognized.

In terms of a DM or experdition leader, sorry I don't do "trust me" or "hand holding" dives. I'd never let someone else at all dictate how I'm going to dive.

There are no conditions where a snorkel provides any advantage - instead it's a huge entangalment hazard on EVERY dive - if someone tries to bully you into wearing one waving there DM creditials, that's a warning sign that they don't have clue. You have to wonder what other stuff they are pulling (overweighting students, not teaching basic gas managment, and other stuff that is so common at vacation hot spots).

The classic one is where the DM tells the new divers "Now you all wear your snorkels for saftey" and then takes them through a swim through at 90' - clueless

 

[MASS-Diver]

Two different posts, two different thoughts, to two different posters.

One may chose to not use a snorkel, in the same way that one may choose not to use seatbeats when driving.

Try again.

Good one - not wearing a snorkle is like not wearing a seatbelt. What's a long hose then or is that something you have never even considered? Let me guess your rig (since you are accussing everyone who does not dive YOUR way as being RECKLESS):

1.) Dual $75 snorkels on a HUGE mask
2.) short primary, Air II
3.) Dual Spare Airs (with a 6cu pony set aside for "deep" dives)
4.) no cutting tools
5.) 3 computers, no compass
6.) no backup mask

 

[sweatfrog]

There are no conditions where a snorkel provides any advantage - instead it's a huge entangalment hazard on EVERY dive - if someone tries to bully you into wearing one waving there DM creditials, that's a warning sign that they don't have clue. You have to wonder what other stuff they are pulling (overweighting students, not teaching basic gas managment, and other stuff that is so common at vacation hot spots).

You're getting a little harsh here aren't you? There's a time and a place for everything and since I've been diving in many conditions I've found that opinionated individuals who think their way is the only way need to be ignored, unless they misrepresent themselves as some sort of misguided authority.

Try working in the mainstream industry and see where your attitude gets you! Somebody doesn't have a clue allright.

 

[BigJetDriver]

Even the PADI OW mannual talks about the dangerous (sic) of Co2 buildup created by the dead space in a reg or snorkel.

There are no conditions where a snorkel provides any advantage...

Mass,

It has been a long time since I taught a Basic Open Water course, so I will have to check back through my PADI (now electronic) Dive Manual to see how they actually word such comments. I have a feeling that there is no printed "WARNING: A SNORKEL IS A MURDEROUS DEVICE DUE TO CO2 AND DEAD AIR SPACE!"

As Archman has pointed out, this seems to be one of those "well-known facts" that, upon proper examination, turn out to have little truth, and no meaning to them.

Your statement, Mass, that: "There are no conditions where a snorkel provides any advantage..." is, upon its face, not correct simply because of all of the actual stories related by actual divers on this very Board where the murderous snorkel turned into a friendly and useful device.

Let's face it, folks. The answer is really VERY simple. If the lowly snorkel were, in fact, the evil, demon infested, murderous device you purport it to be, our military Rescue Swimmer community would be in national mourning, our dive resorts would be haunted places littered with corpses, and our Basic Open Water classes would be used as penal colonies!

Lighten up! Stop drinking all that coffee! Take those tablets your doctor ordered for you!

A snorkel is just a piece of plastic or rubber pipe! It is a TOOL, not a murder weapon!

Use it if you want to! DON'T use it if you don't want to!

If you want to use it, but are afraid of loud-mouths trying to ridicule you, put it in a pocket so that you will HAVE it WHEN you need it!

But one last thing, and that is this comment. To all of those who are so vehemently ANTI-SNORKEL, when you can produce actual statistics and case studies which show IN COLD HARD FACTS the DANGER TO LIFE caused by snorkel use and PROVING BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT TO A REASONABLE PERSON that it is MUCH SAFER NOT TO USE A SNORKEL, you need to cease your shouting about these so-called "known dangers" because without proof, what you are spouting is simply without merit (i.e. it is just NOT true)!

A snorkel is just a tool, folks, for all the silly rhetoric attached. Use it if you feel it's handy, nail it to a wall as a decoration if you don't.

Please though, DO NOT go around spouting "absolute facts" about "known dangers" that you cannot back up. Unless you can come up with the case studies and stats, which as far as I personally know do not exist, you are merely spouting opinion and urban myth. In this case it comes under the heading of MYTH: BUSTED!

Rob Davie :doctor:

 

[pilot fish]

Mass,

It has been a long time since I taught a Basic Open Water course, so I will have to check back through my PADI (now electronic) Dive Manual to see how they actually word such comments. I have a feeling that there is no printed "WARNING: A SNORKEL IS A MURDEROUS DEVICE DUE TO CO2 AND DEAD AIR SPACE!"

As Archman has pointed out, this seems to be one of those "well-known facts" that, upon proper examination, turn out to have little truth, and no meaning to them.

Your statement, Mass, that: "There are no conditions where a snorkel provides any advantage..." is, upon its face, not correct simply because of all of the actual stories related by actual divers on this very Board where the murderous snorkel turned into a friendly and useful device.

Let's face it, folks. The answer is really VERY simple. If the lowly snorkel were, in fact, the evil, demon infested, murderous device you purport it to be, our military Rescue Swimmer community would be in national mourning, our dive resorts would be haunted places littered with corpses, and our Basic Open Water classes would be used as penal colonies!

Lighten up! Stop drinking all that coffee! Take those tablets your doctor ordered for you!

A snorkel is just a piece of plastic or rubber pipe! It is a TOOL, not a murder weapon!

Use it if you want to! DON'T use it if you don't want to!

If you want to use it, but are afraid of loud-mouths trying to ridicule you, put it in a pocket so that you will HAVE it WHEN you need it!

But one last thing, and that is this comment. To all of those who are so vehemently ANTI-SNORKEL, when you can produce actual statistics and case studies which show IN COLD HARD FACTS the DANGER TO LIFE caused by snorkel use and PROVING BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT TO A REASONABLE PERSON that it is MUCH SAFER NOT TO USE A SNORKEL, you need to cease your shouting about these so-called "known dangers" because without proof, what you are spouting is simply without merit (i.e. it is just NOT true)!

A snorkel is just a tool, folks, for all the silly rhetoric attached. Use it if you feel it's handy, nail it to a wall as a decoration if you don't.

Please though, DO NOT go around spouting "absolute facts" about "known dangers" that you cannot back up. Unless you can come up with the case studies and stats, which as far as I personally know do not exist, you are merely spouting opinion and urban myth. In this case it comes under the heading of MYTH: BUSTED!

Rob Davie :doctor:

As I said in an early post in this thread, BTW, I am pro snorkel and carry one on my mask, so far. It seems to have been the wrong thing for me to use in this instance.


I and 4 other divers came up on the wrong line to the wrong boat on one dive on the USS Spiegel Grove. My boat was about 200 yards away. The sea had 3 to 5 ft chop. I put my snorkel in my mouth and started to swim to the correct boat. Within a minute I went no where and had a case of hypoxia against the current. I was very, very concerned and since the wrong boat was closer, and down current, I swam to it. Mercifully they allowed me onboard where I got my breath. My boat threw over a long tag line and I went back into the water and went on my reg, I had about 650 psi, for the swim back to my boat.

I realize my mistake: I should have rolled over on my back and used my reg.

 

[BigJetDriver]

My boat was about 200 yards away. The sea had 3 to 5 ft chop. I put my snorkel in my mouth and started to swim to the correct boat. Within a minute I went no where and had a case of hypoxia against the current. I was very, very concerned and since the wrong boat was closer, and down current, I swam to it. Mercifully they allowed me onboard where I got my breath. My boat threw over a long tag line and I went back into the water and went on my reg, I had about 650 psi, for the swim back to my boat.

I realize my mistake: I should have rolled over on my back and used my reg.

Swimming against the current and in the chop might have been a bad idea with either regulator OR the snork.

You did the right thing. You recognized the problem, took the easiest and shortest course, and solved the problem. Good job! Good thinking!

No boat crew in their right mind will refuse you boarding.

Cheers!

Rob Davie :doctor:

 

[Charlie99]

I realize my mistake: I should have rolled over on my back and used my reg.

Even in 3-5' chop swimming on your back while breathing surface air should have been pretty easy. Just hold your reg to keep it from freeflowing and to keep it handy.

I hate surface swimming and find it easier to descend 5-10' to swim .... but not a good choice if there is boat traffic around, though.

Face down, breathing a reg, and pulling on the super long tag line beats it all though. You made a good decision to get the situation under control by going downcurrent to the other boat.

---------------

Unrelated observation:
One place I see people unecessarily get into trouble with snorkles is while getting onto a boat ladder. With a reg in your mouth it doesn't matter if you are above water, below water, or awash -- it's all the same. Even if you are below 500psi, go ahead and switch back to the reg for the few seconds it takes to remove fins and get onboard.

 

[archman]

Even the PADI OW mannual talks about the dangerous of Co2 buildup created by the dead space in a reg or snorkel. The buildup leads to people sucking down gas (let me guess all your new students have great gas consumption) and a decreased ability to deal with emergencies. Jeez, do yourself a favor and backoff on this one - the dangerous of Co2 are well recognized.

They were in fact well recongized, when it was in fact a potentially serious concern. Now we have guidelines regarding snorkel tube length, and bore diameter. It is no longer a valid concern, and hasn't been for a very long time. If it is so bad, please cite some hard numbers, or supply a crude risk estimate. As far as I know, CO2 buildup from a modern snorkel is still regarded as statistically insignificant. 'Course I've been out of date before, so if there's some new study out, please supply a link. The list of known/theorized factors thought to "decrease ability to deal with emergencies" is a very long one, most of which have little/no hard data to support them.

There are no conditions where a snorkel provides any advantage - instead it's a huge entangalment hazard on EVERY dive - if someone tries to bully you into wearing one waving there DM creditials, that's a warning sign that they don't have clue. You have to wonder what other stuff they are pulling (overweighting students, not teaching basic gas managment, and other stuff that is so common at vacation hot spots).

You are conveniently forgetting that snorkels do not have to be worn on the mask at all times. Many models are specifically designed for removal and storage during the dive. As to them being a huge entanglement hazard on EVERY dive, that is patently and statistically false. They are one more piece of protruding equipment, and yes, that will increase entanglement risk in that body region. But that risk can and is minimized by a great many divers, under a great many dive conditions. Which is why virtually everyone teaches their use, since the advent of scuba.

The classic one is where the DM tells the new divers "Now you all wear your snorkels for saftey" and then takes them through a swim through at 90' - clueless

I doubt this "classic line" even exists as you have described it... it implies that the snorkel is necessary for the swim-thru. You can most certainly lead divers wearing snorkels through swim-thru's... I do it all the time with no problem, as do group leaders around the world. Tens of thousands of recreational divers (if not more) do this annually. It's easy as pie. Swim-thru's as the majority defines the term are neither difficult nor are they dangerous to most divers, whether they are wearing a snorkel or not.