Do we need instructors?

[stefo2]

I think there are a few reasons for the difference.
1) The dangers of diving are more subtle. DCS,narcosis etc etc are not obvious problems to a non diver, whereas the consequences of falling 500 feet into hard rocks are pretty clear
2)Its easier for the diving industry to control the participants. Most people don't have their own compressors. Anyone can walk up to a cliff and start climbing it.
3)Climbing used to be (its changing unfortunately) a non mainstream activity. No glossy marketing brochures extolling the wonders of the spa after a day on the rocks

Good points, especially 1) and 2). I don't think diving used to be a mainstream activity, either though, has only been going that way for a little bit longer than climbing.

 

[ianr33]

I'm sure you're correct about that.

I started rock climbing 35 years ago when it was not mainstream. Started diving maybe 15 years ago when it was.
Now my diving is moving away from mainstream and the circle is completing itself.

 

[captain]

I think that's naive.

I think you could compare that to learning how to drive a car. In some places the parents can still "instruct" their children when they have a learner's license.

Two things can be said about that. 1) most people don't drive well enough themselves to be "let loose" to instruct their children regarless of how much time they have and/or if they really want to do it right and (2) there is a very good reason why this is not allowed in big cities, namely that "professional" driving instructors are better at it.

I think you could draw a parallel there.

R..

I have been behind some professional driving instructors and it wasn't pretty.

 

[leapfrog]

I have been behind some professional driving instructors and it wasn't pretty.

Perhaps you should have been in front? And what exactly were you looking at?:shocked2:

 

[Wayfarer2]

I am willing to bet there is a lot more mentoring going on in diving than most people would think. But it is not for everyone and it happens in places and ways that most people never see.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

Do we need instructors?

No. Well, not exactly....

Do we need teachers (as in, one who is skilled at teaching)?

Yes.

Many instructors are brilliant teachers; but so are many "mentors".

Best wishes.

 

[captain]

Perhaps you should have been in front? And what exactly were you looking at?:shocked2:

Coming to the end of an interstate entrance ramp and stopping rather than accelerating and merging

 

[leapfrog]

Do we need instructors?No. Well, not exactly....Do we need teachers (as in, one who is skilled at teaching)?Yes.Many instructors are brilliant teachers; but so are many "mentors".
Best wishes.

I think you need to define Instructors, Teachers, Gurus and Mentors.

 

[DaleC]

I climbed for 25 years and never took a course. I'm not saying that was good or bad. I just never saw a course offered when I started. I joined a SAR team that serviced an alpine region and we practiced cliff rescue techniques. Within that group there were a core of climbers and away I went. I self taught technical rock, alpine, technical ice and ski mountaineering, telemarking and aid climbing (and only cheated death twice... that I know about). It's not for everybody. I had some good mentors along the way and did a lot of study. Just like diving. Those that go the self taught/mentor route (successfully) probably need to be self disciplined and self motivated. Some fit the mold but not all. Some people feel safer in a group setting but I'm not one of them.

I think people will be who they are regardless. Self disciplined divers could learn either way and dumb azzes will become statistics either way as well.

One difference instructors make is that they allow many more non divers to experience the sport - like tandem parachute jumping. That is probably why there is such a high drop out rate after the first year. Most people shouldn't be diving in the first place. They do it because it's a thrill/cool/dare/"life"goal/bucket list item but find they aren't really willing to do what it takes to progress beyond DM led dives.

An interesting sub specialty that is completely mentor taught/passed on is vintage diving. There are no courses for it and the shops won't go near the gear. Yet, divers still re learn this style of diving and how to service gear from mentors.

 

[gcbryan]

This has been an interesting discussion. Thanks everyone. Actually, the present system will stay around if for no other reason than it's cheaper and more practical than trying to do it on your own.

If it only costs $129 to get certified and includes rental gear and use of the pool even a mentor would just send his student through the system for $129 for the gear/pool and resulting c-card before beginning the mentoring process.

I think it probably would be beneficial if there was an independent group doing the exams rather than the instructor/LDS but if that group was the government then I'm sure that would bring many other problems. Perhaps a voluntary association with agreed upon standards but independent of the LDS. More or less like a non-governmental version of the FAA where pilots go for their final certification check-out.

There are other parallels as well. What about a student scuba license good for 6 months with a more demanding test coming at the end? This would allow final standards to be much higher but wouldn't cost anymore because the additional knowledge/skill would come from experience/mentoring in that following 6 month period.