Diving your own profile in Cozumel

[PeterNBiddle]

with the really expert expert divers concluding the same as me I might add

I was so ready to drop this as well, but you've cited this claim multiple times. I recall multiple "really expert expert divers" who started out against voluntary non-emergency air-sharing who significantly shifted their positions during the thread.

If experts (or anyone else) on the board support you, they will speak up. Don't cite them like they are lost nameless mystics.

---------- Post added August 28th, 2013 at 10:27 PM ----------

Here a few really really expert divers:

when I was down to 1000psi, I would take his octopus rig and breath off of him until he was down to 1000psi. At which point I'd switch back to my own gas supply and we'd finish the dive.

For us, this worked pretty good. And, I felt that it help me with 3 scuba skills. 1) It help me learn how to stay close to my buddy. 2) It gave me a lot of "sharing air" practice. 3) It gave me a lot of practice in dealing with equipment issues underwater.

Was diving this evening with my son and I got a little carried away filming some goliath grouper (they are as big as a person; or larger). He wanted to ascend, but we had to swim back to the wreck to retrieve my speargun which I had laid down. He was down to around 800 lbs or so and I had more in my larger tank... so I offered him my regulator for the swim back, so he could conserve enough air to make him "comfortable".

Thought of this thread and figured I would film our swim back using my new GoPro extension pole

It just doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

Video Link: http://youtu.be/vDrF1AOnabc

Funny -- my GUE brain says that practicing air-sharing until it's an extremely comfortable activity and doesn't impact one's buoyancy at all is a good thing

Hahahahahahaha

As for the last poster, David, I can't decide which way to go on this issue. You have established some very good points.

@ Lynne, I guess I shouldn't have been so shocked to learn you air share.

I guess I am so undecided because my GUE brain says "NO YOU CANNOT DO THIS!¡!¡" & my head says "In situations where it is pre-planned & plenty of air will be reserved for potential disaster it is OK."

Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2

Bottom line: A basic emergency skill designed to get a diver through an OOA situation is too dangerous for most divers to attempt for such a non-emergency purpose. Just think of the havoc that might ensue if all divers were able to accomplish such a skill with confidence.

The HORROR! How can you?!?!

My girlfriend says that the only reason I bring her along on dive trips is for the extra air. (Her SAC=0.3 is half of my SAC=0.6)

I don't wait until I'm down to 700 psi, I will wander over to her when I get down to about 1,500 - 1,200 psi and I see that our remaining gas is quite different. Ten or 15 minutes on her octo evens-out our gas supplies quite nicely.

This leaves us both well above rock-bottom gas, too.

The dive master usually gets really interested in us when he sees that I'm on her octo.

The only time we do this is on drift dives in Cozumel where you can stay down for as long as you have gas on your back - and, like Teamcasa says, I can' my hands on doubles.

I am looking at all of these posts, and it seems strange that I seem to be the only one who cannot get past the OP's divemaster's behaviour. Anyone with a head on their shoulders can see that if done properly, air sharing could be a safe part of a gas management plan. What I don't like is that fact that the DM pushed this manouver onto his/her client without any pre-consultation. When we hire a dive master/dive guide, we are offloading some of the planning work onto that person. However, as certified divers, we are responsible for our own safety, and, therefore, syupposed to be in on the entire plan. We are trusting our guide to assist with making our dive safe and comfortable, not confusing and upredictable.

Y

Please name the specific liveabroad so I can avoid it in the future. It's not that I need to share air to extend bottom time every time I dive (I think I have ever done this once with my buddy) but I really dislike dive professionals parenting their paying customers because of personal belives regarding dive preferences. I agree with Peter, it is a totally insignificant event with no real world risk attached for any competent diver. If this "technique" really imposes a problem for a certified diver with some diving experience, those divers shouldn't be in the water at all.
Note, I don't recommend this procedure to be performed regularly but I don't see the any issue with it either in order to prolong bottom time for a couple of minutes on a shallow reef dive during vacation to better match gas.

Well, I've seen it done plenty of times. No flailing, no hysteria. Divers seem to be able to understand gas management in this context.
But, OK, don't do it on your dive, Cool with me.

I have a short hose and I do it with my son. I breath from the Air 2 and he uses my short primary. We can't swim side by side, but he swims above me, keeps one hand on my tank valve a can ride above me. This gives him a good degree of control although I can not see what he is doing, but I can hear his breathing well, so I have some feedback. Plus we are very close, so we can talk and scream to (at) eachother.

So not only can "regular" people do it, but they can use "regular" gear to share air. I honestly think it makes us safer in that the air sharing and the use of the AIR 2 is good practice..

A lot of the places where we travel only offer one size of tank, and often, that is the ubiquitous Al80. For very shallow diving, it's fine, and we don't share gas. If the dives are deeper, a few minutes of gas sharing early in the dive will allow us to get a good, full hour's dive.

I prefer other options, where they are available. At home, Peter dives 130s and I dive 100s. Where we CAN, we dive doubles (one of the reasons I love the Tala in the Red Sea is those lovely, long, leisurely dives on double 80s!).

The gas sharing approach is purely for low-intensity, open water dives in areas where there are no bigger tanks available.

 

[ggunn]

My last post was 4 days ago. The issue was dead until you brought it up again. And you're accusing me of crapping on another's thread? The original thread was "diving your own profile". How can one dive one's own profile when all the divers in a group are required to ascend at once?

---------- Post added August 28th, 2013 at 07:39 PM ----------


Apparently I get other to do my beating for me. I've tried to bow out this thread several times after I realized my points were already thoroughly hashed over in the December 2012 thread that I cited, with the really expert expert divers concluding the same as me I might add

The only way to bow out of a thread is to stop posting in it, even when there are others who disagree with you. It's just a little disingenuous (IMO) to accuse others of beating a dead horse when you are standing there with a bloody stick in your hand. Figuratively speaking, of course.

 

[Ms. Ann Thrope]

I hope I'm not picking up the stick here. The thing I like best about Aldora is that they've created a culture of long dives. I could do without Mr. Sancho's, and I prefer the model of letting divers go up as individuals or pairs, but ultimately, if you can make a tank last a long time, and long dives are what you want, Aldora is a pretty good way to go. Nevertheless, air sharing isn't for everyone. Years ago, we took a friend with us who was a less confident diver and was, in retrospect, not completely well; we booked with Living Underwater, which was then a new, one-boat shop using the Aldora model--Jeremy didn't even own it yet. On our first dive, our friend was blowing through her air and was uncomfortable enough that she just wanted to go up. Instead, she ended up on the hose and felt so yanked around and out of control that she didn't want to continue diving. We salvaged the whole thing only by switching to an op that would let her go up when she wanted--and she lasted longer on subsequent dives because she was more comfortable. But on that LU dive, we were the group that limited the bottom time--and possibly the dive quality--for others. We mostly dive with Blue Angel because our favorite DM gives us space. The dives aren't as long (about 70 minutes is as long as we usually push it), not because anyone is giving us a time signal, but because we don't want to make others wait too long or disrupt the boat schedule. I've long made my peace with the idea that I'm going to get on the boat with lots of air in my tank and, usually, time on my computer, whether I'm with Aldora or BA. That's where shore dives come in.

 

[Ron Lee]

I am not going to reread all 73 posts to see if the OP ever came back. Does he expect to be able to dive a tank for 90 minutes if everyone else is done at 50-60 minutes?

 

[mstevens]

Does he expect to be able to dive a tank for 90 minutes if everyone else is done at 50-60 minutes?

I have no way of knowing, but in my personal experience there are shops on the island that would permit this irrespective of how bad the idea might be.

 

[Mossman]

I was so ready to drop this as well, but you've cited this claim multiple times. I recall multiple "really expert expert divers" who started out against voluntary non-emergency air-sharing who significantly shifted their positions during the thread.

If experts (or anyone else) on the board support you, they will speak up. Don't cite them like they are lost nameless mystics.

Here a few really really expert divers:

I might disagree with your characterization of some of them as expert expert. To me, that denotes a high level instructor certification and well over a thousand dives.

In any case, I like Peter Guy's summation of the thread: "Summary -- some people, who might be considered dangerous divers by those who disagree, believe there is nothing wrong with "borrowing a cup of air" as long as all involved are skilled. Others, who might be considered uptight and anal by those who think this is OK, believe an air share is for one purpose only and that is to go to the surface. All people seem to think that "the average recreational diver" shouldn't do this since their skill level sucks. All people seem to think that DMs doing this for the purpose of keeping the dive mob together is not a good idea!"

Note the last sentence. You did find a few outliers to be sure but it's rare to find 100% agreement on any topic.

Or as supergaijin put it, "The vast majority agree that DM's on the job shouldn't air-share to prolong dives. Somehow we managed to get past it, and the discussion moved in to other aspects/merits of air-sharing to prolong bottom time vs. thinly disguised ways of practicing emergency drills

"

The vast majority.

---------- Post added August 29th, 2013 at 06:49 AM ----------

The only way to bow out of a thread is to stop posting in it, even when there are others who disagree with you. It's just a little disingenuous (IMO) to accuse others of beating a dead horse when you are standing there with a bloody stick in your hand. Figuratively speaking, of course.

It's a standard tactic that can effectively shame one's opponent. Politicians do it all the time. If it's good enough for presidential candidates, it's good enough for me.

Bowing out of a thread is the equivalent of running from a fight. I only run from fights that I can't win

 

[Mike]

So what happens on a dive where they send divers up in pairs as they run low on air, and you and your dive buddy out last the dive master's supply? Does he wave goodbye and goes up and waits for you on the boat?

 

[cbm32]

If the buddy pair that outlasts the DM are good divers, yeah. Why not let the DM go up while they finish out their dive? I read thread after thread about how we all must be responsible for ourselves, no follow me dives, etc etc etc. Yes, in the marine preserve you are supposed to have a DM with you. You did. Circumstances prevented the DM from being with you the whole dive...it happens, no big whoop. Finish the dive, send up an SMB, surface and get on the boat. Seems pretty simple to me.

Scuba diving is never going to be "one size fits all" so why do we have to keep trying to force everyone else to fit some mold we prefer?

 

[Ron Lee]

Circumstances prevented the DM from being with you the whole dive...it happens, no big whoop. Finish the dive, send up an SMB, surface and get on the boat. Seems pretty simple to me.

Lt me know when you find a dive op that will do that for most people.....not just "special" divers.

 

[ggunn]

It's a standard tactic that can effectively shame one's opponent. Politicians do it all the time. If it's good enough for presidential candidates, it's good enough for me.

It might work on some people, I guess.

Bowing out of a thread is the equivalent of running from a fight. I only run from fights that I can't win

Then why would you say that you "tried to bow out" if you didn't? And BTW, if this is a fight it is indeed one that you cannot win. You could of course declare victory and run away...