DIVING OVER 50 YEARS OLD

[clarkey]

Clearly there are many different viewpoints here coming from many different groups within the dive community, and this illustrates the difficulty of introducing policies of any sort, especially when we have such a varied client base, from backpackers doing first time dive courses (none of whom have or are particularly wanting to buy dive insurance), to more seasoned divers (across a range of ages, experience and physical conditions) coming on annual holidays. I have given this a lot of thought over the last week and rather than have a strict policy as such, am considering the following statement to be added to our website, and referred to in all booking emails... I would appreciate any comments (other than the grumpy "I'm not going there" ones!!).... thanks


"PLEASE READ BEFORE MAKING RESERVATIONS - DIVING RISKS & DIVING ON LITTLE CORN ISLAND

We expect all divers, whether first time students or experienced divers, to be responsible for their own health and to present themselves at the dive shop in a fit state for diving, and acknowledging that there are risks associated with any physical activities. Diving with us will require divers to be comfortable in open seas and capable of unaided entry and exit from a small boat with ladder. Diver should be aware that waves and currents are possible, and be ready to make personal decisions as to their own comfort and confidence in such conditions, and whether dives are suitable for them or not. Our staff will gladly discuss in confidence any issues that divers may have and make recommendations as to what is suitable for that diver.

All students undertaking a PADI program, and anyone doing a refresher, will be asked to read and sign the PADI Medical Statement (see the ‘courses and prices’ page on our website). It is however the divers responsibility to disclose any other conditions that may be relevant to safe diving (e.g. sickness, de-hydration, nerves etc.). We strongly recommend that anyone wishing to undertake a dive course who is over the age of 50 years old consider a dive medical before coming, irrespective of whether they answer yes or no to the questions on the medical statement.

Little Corn Island is a remote location in a poorly developed country and as such medical facilities are extremely limited. Customers are responsible for any costs associated with medical emergencies and evacuation to medical facilities and as such we recommend dive insurance, especially for those in higher risk categories e.g. due to age, weight or other physical condition."

 

[falcon125]

Off topic: In Australia our Medicare is 1.5% of your taxible income and provides full coverage for all visits to doctors and and any matter requiring hospital, no matter what. Does not matter your age. ObamaCare is, as we see it, great but not enough!!!

Obama Care is now 12% of my income. Great for the Insurance Companies. Great for the people who don't work.
Sucks for the working class middle class.

 

[AdivingBel]

Obama Care is now 12% of my income. Great for the Insurance Companies. Great for the people who don't work.
Sucks for the working class middle class.

It must vary greatly by state and/or situation. As a small business owner without a purchasing group, prior to ACA I was paying ridiculous amounts for strictly catastrophic care insurance with huge deductibles. While I don't qualify for subsidies, at least I now have insurance options for less that are real insurance with reasonable deductibles, copays, and max out of pocket limits. I have no chronic health issues and rarely have need for a doctor. Due to potential healthcare costs, I have to have insurance just to protect my assets. I agree ACA is not a perfect solution, but it's better than where we were headed as a society. I don't like how the insurance system makes not only your current assets available to feed the healthcare system, but also how it mortgages every dollar you might ever earn. In a capitalistic economy (or at least pseudo capitalistic like we have), if you can't put a price on a product, how can you have supply and demand? How much would you be willing to pay for one more healthy day for a loved one? It's a big problem for our have/have not society and we need serious people and ideas to solve it. If we don't figure this out and get some kind of handle on the wealth disparity in this country, we eventually will have revolution with barbarians at the gate. That's not a good solution for the have's or the have not's. IMHO. This really belongs in the pub.

 

[smoore]

I am 59 and if this policy was properly publicized I would have no problem with it. Many of the over 50 crowd that regularly visit this site are experienced divers who exercise and dive regularly. They are not typical over 50 divers. The ones who get into trouble are often inexperienced, do not dive regularly and routinely lie on the medical questionnaire to ensure that they can dive. It is those people this policy is directed at. A diver who gets into trouble poses potential serious risks for every other diver in the group. If that diver dies, then the other divers may suffer from serious psychological sequelae. At a minimum their trips will have been ruined. This is not a pleasant experience for the diver operator and such incidents expose the dive operator to potential legal problems including potential criminal or quasi-criminal charges and civil liability.

I find it disappointing that many people view this question from their own selfish perspective. We live in an age where everyone wants to trumpet their rights. What happened to the idea that we have collective responsibilities? I believe that I have an obligation not to place my fellow divers at risk unnecessarily. Providing a medical certificate and making sure I do a check out dive if I have been out of the water for a long time are not onerous demands. If we get in trouble on a dive we all expect the diver operator and our fellow divers to pitch in and do their best to assist us even if that puts them at risk. I believe I have an obligation not to expose my fellow divers to avoidable risks. I applaud this operator's attempt to make sure I don't kill myself or his other customers.

 

[DavidFL]

Interesting thread; my personal contribution is likely a reinforcement in some way of what some others have said:

1. I definitely fall in this category (I'm 67), but a "medical clearance" from my GP/internist is pretty much useless; neither the Physician or any of his PA's have any experience with diving and when I have attempted to discuss diving with them, the quick assumptions they make are, frankly, laughable.

2. I regularly do my own research on my relevant medical conditions, and I have had useful conversations about continuing to dive with my hematologist and a cardiologist, as well as PhDs (for example, at a DAN seminar at DEMA), but I don't believe there is any one form or procedure or "clearance" that can simultaneously provide the kind of reassurance the dive operator is looking for that simultaneously accurately reflects a genuine assessment of risks and a nuanced professional 'judgment' of my (or anyone else's) combination of the human condition past age 50.

Like a lot of other elements of being in business, I think the operator has to see it as a market risk vs. reward decision, and make up his/her own mind.

 

[dead dog]

If you ask for medical certs for over 50s, then you should ask for everyone diving there.

 

[diver 86]

i would not dive with you if this policy were in place.

 

[Tippytoes12]

Thanks for shortening my list of places to visit !

Surely obesity or excess alcohol consumption or heavy smoking are far more significant issues than chronological age ? On a Red Sea LOB a few years ago, a relatively young diver was so obese that he couldn't be safely got into a dingy....he had to be towed back to the mothership .

Fifty is not old now. Strongly recommending a letter is fine , forbidding diving without one is another.

 

[northernone]

As a younger diver who has had the honor of diving with some well seasoned divers I find the correlation between chronological age and required medical clearance and proof of insurance offensive. I'll even throw in the term 'ageist'. Sadly, I have shared a boat with divers who's physical condition appear to be time bombs but it doesn't seem to be the older crowd. Before I'd see an age related clause might we rather institute drug testing, perhaps at least among DMs and instructors.

Once again, it's your dive operation, and you are free to run it as you feel you should. However, be sure I'll be enjoying the services of another shop when I come to little corn.

Sadly,
Cameron

 

[rjack321]

The problem seems to be more the lack of any available medical facilities in the first place - which will impact any guest regardless of age.

Not sure if any more need to be said about being self sufficient medically, possibly partnering with the local nurses station to increase supplies and the level of care available island wide. Things you might wish to consider: lots of O2, an AED, a portable chamber (they only get to 2ATA but better than nothing), a higher level of training for at least one of the on-island nurses, drugs to try to stabilize common problems, I'm sure you can get more ideas from other remote nurse's stations around the world.

You are approaching this problem by trying to screen out health issues before they arrive (which is unlikely and challenging). The alternative is to ramp up the available level of care on the island for all islanders including guests so you're all better off and not dying on a 2+ hour boat ride to the mainland. One way to do facilitate this would be to ask or require donations to the local clinic by guests. They might be more willing to help a relatively impoverished health clinic than you imagine. Another one be to form an island tourism collective where all hotels and island businesses contribute to improving the clinic to help yourselves and attract foreign tourists who often have some expectation of emergency medical services.