Diver Training: How much is enough?

[Diver0001]

My program is difficult, but I seldom have had anyone withdraw. People are there to learn and I'm there to help them. I donate my time and don't care if it takes them 200 hours of instruction for them to become certified (although over 90% complete the training in the time allotted). When they do, I feel confident that they could dive with any member of my family safely. That's my criteria for certification. Why would I certify anyone whom I felt was unsafe (regardless of certification level)? At this point, they are at the beginning of the journey and will learn much more as they gain experience. While they're learning, they don't present a hazard to themselves or their Buddy as they are competent to dive within the limitations of their certification. Usually however, they are eager for further training.

I'm not convinced that "making it difficult" equates to "making it better", which is the assumption underlying many comments like this. However, I certainly appreciate the attitude of commitment, dedication to good results and wanting the divers to get the best training possible.

I've read this entire thread up to now and I'd just like to add one thing, which is that in my opinion, if more instructors really committed to getting decent results as Wayne expresses in the bit I quoted then it would be entirely possible within current standards.

I don't like discussions about standards much because it never makes sense to me. Standards are just a check list of the minimal things you need to do. I'm sure (or I defer to your experience in any case) that standards are not what they used to be (the minimum has dropped) but they haven't changed much since I was certified nearly 30 years ago and the most important thing hasn't changed at all, which is that the instructor can make or break the course regardless of what standards say.

I think Lynne's example above is a good case in point. If her OW instructor had simply *followed* standards then she wouldn't have been certified because she wasn't able to master the descent, which is core skill. Her instructor violated standards, but the standard itself wasn't the big problem.

And that's the big issue I see with scuba training. There are too many lazy and/or incompetent instructors out there who are violating standards every single day, and THAT, in my humble opinion, is what is watering down the training. We can have all the standards in the world but unless it's policed and instructors are held to the bar of "mastery" before approving a skill, then nothing much will improve.

So instructors, take note. Look in a mirror and remind yourself of the definition of "mastery" before you approve any/all skills and you'll find that your results improve dramatically overnight. Because "demonstrating" something and "mastering" something are not the same!

R..

 

[The Chairman]

I'm not convinced that "making it difficult" equates to "making it better",

It's a common fallacy that a class has to be tough and/or lengthy to be thorough. The essence of a great instructor is their ability to make the tough simple, the hard easy and change the long and drawn out into fun and efficient. A few want to call this a dumbing down, when it's actually a funning up. The last thing I need or want is a former student of mine silting out the place or running out of air like a complete noob. Ergo, my training focuses on being trim and neutral as well as buddy and gas management. To be frank, (sorry Wookie) those are the very same things that I see lacking in many certified divers: even those that have taken long and hard classes.

In real life, every instructor has a different emphasis on their training. Some harp on not touching the pool walls and I have even seen them slap hands. Oh my! Some focus so much on self rescue that their students are scared stiff to get in the water lest they find themselves in a real emergency. Most are fairly balanced, but we all have our quirks. That's OK as our differences go a long way to keep us honestly striving for excellence. The only instructor I have a real problem with is the one that is focused on completing their routine as fast as possible with as little care or effort as they can get by with. Yeah, they're out there, but they are few and far between.

One of things I really emphasize with my students are limits. While it's obvious that air/time/depth have to be considered on each and every dive, all too often they don't realize that skill, physical fitness, training, conditions, support, buddies and more should also be considered on each and every dive. To paraphrase Dirty Harry, a diver has to know their limitations. As long as they respect those limitations, they'll do just fine.

 

[waterpirate]

Since this has circled back around to the instructor, I will be capt. obvious and remind everyone that the students all have different ways of learning, and progressing as well as wildly differing expectations. A good instructor can sort all that out to suit the group and still be fun.
Eric

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'm not convinced that "making it difficult" equates to "making it better", which is the assumption underlying many comments like this. However, I certainly appreciate the attitude of commitment, dedication to good results and wanting the divers to get the best training possible.

I've read this entire thread up to now and I'd just like to add one thing, which is that in my opinion, if more instructors really committed to getting decent results as Wayne expresses in the bit I quoted then it would be entirely possible within current standards.

I don't like discussions about standards much because it never makes sense to me. Standards are just a check list of the minimal things you need to do. I'm sure (or I defer to your experience in any case) that standards are not what they used to be (the minimum has dropped) but they haven't changed much since I was certified nearly 30 years ago and the most important thing hasn't changed at all, which is that the instructor can make or break the course regardless of what standards say.

I think Lynne's example above is a good case in point. If her OW instructor had simply *followed* standards then she wouldn't have been certified because she wasn't able to master the descent, which is core skill. Her instructor violated standards, but the standard itself wasn't the big problem.

And that's the big issue I see with scuba training. There are too many lazy and/or incompetent instructors out there who are violating standards every single day, and THAT, in my humble opinion, is what is watering down the training. We can have all the standards in the world but unless it's policed and instructors are held to the bar of "mastery" before approving a skill, then nothing much will improve.

So instructors, take note. Look in a mirror and remind yourself of the definition of "mastery" before you approve any/all skills and you'll find that your results improve dramatically overnight. Because "demonstrating" something and "mastering" something are not the same!

R..

I completely agree.

I think one of the biggest reasons why instructors focus more on "demonstrating" than "mastery" is because there's an inherent conflict of interest between the goal of providing a quality education and the goal of providing profit for the dive center that's operating the class. When costs are limited, so are the resources and time available to provide quality. "Competition" between dive shops keeps the cost of classes low, and this inherently limits how much quality an instructor is able to provide. Many will seek the easy solution of a "checklist" approach that may follow the letter of the standards, but certainly not the spirit implied by the use of the term "mastery".

If someone's uncomfortable clearing a mask, they haven't really "mastered" the skill.

If someone can't read a compass without first kneeling on the bottom, they haven't "mastered" even the basic navigational skills required at the OW level.

If someone is so task-loaded that they're not making eye contact and communicating with their buddy on a regular basis, they haven't "mastered" buddy diving.

If someone can't descend without touching the bottom, or can't hold a safety stop without holding onto something, they haven't "mastered" buoyancy control.

They may well be considered to have "demonstrated" these things, and therefore they get checked off the list ... but they've not met the level of mastery implied by the standards of any training agency.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[The Chairman]

If someone's uncomfortable clearing a mast,

As many times as I've tried, I've yet to do this in a single bound!

 

[Diver0001]

LOL. I tried to think of something witty to say about that, but yours is better!

R..

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Sorry for the sloppy typing ... fixed it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[The Chairman]

It just proves that you're human, Bob. I prove my humanity way too often.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

It just proves that you're human, Bob. I prove my humanity way too often.

... according to my friend's 6 year old, I'm half Italian, half comedian and half human ... :shocked2:

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[jar546]

... according to my friend's 6 year old, I'm half Italian, half comedian and half human ... :shocked2:

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

What's the 4th half?