Diver Training: How much is enough?

[drrich2]

KWS:

The degree of professionalism needed to give advice hinges on the situation, the advisee and the advice to be given. It would be advisable to be a formally trained professional if one is going to diagnose Bipolar D/O definitively and compare and contrast medication treatment alternatives, like Lithium vs. Depakote vs. an atypical antipsychotic/mood stabilizer with an acute mania indication.

But you don't need a sheep skin to let a hurting buddy going through a divorce spend an evening with you, share what he's feeling, and console him. Our society would be a miserably dysfunctional place if the only place anybody could get advice was from a professional.

Let's relate that to scuba. In your profile's 'About Me' section, you list a number of certifications you've received, including Cavern and some technical diving. Given the degree of technical knowledge and skill needed to safely conduct some types of dives (e.g.: cave, deco. & other technical), I strongly recommend those interested in such get the formal training to do it. You don't know what you don't know, as they say.

Now, for an OW diver with a group in Bonaire who wants to dive over 60 feet deep, or do a night dive, if you're with a buddy or buddies who are comfortable and competent with the dives to be done and the environment at had, I see no reason an AOW cert. is required. Likewise, I've been on charter boat dives in very benign Caribbean conditions (e.g.: Grand Cayman) were we got over 60 feet deep, no AOW required. You can find out what you need to know about diving to 100 feet, for example, or the equipment for night diving, and with some mentoring grow into it. Getting a cert. is fine, but not required.

I did the AOW course and respect it, but assuming OW divers haven't 'proven themselves' because they haven't taken it seems to me a bit much.

You are a shrink and yet none of your postings allow for any room for valid questioning of you position. Any one who would attempt that is shrugged off based on some small flaw found to maintain the distinction and seperation of the superior and the nots.

Assessing and treating mentally ill inpatients does not make me superior on a scuba forum (neither does my limited rec. scuba training and experience). I try to be rational, reasonable and forthright in my communication style, to express my ideas to question, persuade or, yes, even challenge views I disagree with, though I try not to antagonize people doing it (I find once people feel attacked and go into defensive mode, discussions tend to deteriorate).

People challenge my views from time to time on ScubaBoard.

Richard.

 

[ptscuba]

It comes down to the instructor - i too make all my students buddy up and behave on a dive with their buddy "as if i am not there" - this is all explained to them prior to the dive - i tell them that after their training i am no longer with them and they need to be competent and confident - i also explain the limit of their training and how important experience is.

However, the amount of new divers that dive with us and IGNORE ALL advice and recommendations we give them with regards to depth etc is stunning as are the number of divers who take this sport so lightly - many do not even know how their gear including computers work and many do not know what No Decompression Limits are.................

 

[DCBC]

It comes down to the instructor - i too make all my students buddy up and behave on a dive with their buddy "as if i am not there" - this is all explained to them prior to the dive - i tell them that after their training i am no longer with them and they need to be competent and confident - i also explain the limit of their training and how important experience is.

It does ultimately come down to the individual Instructor Stephanie; I agree with your assessment. Unfortunately, Instructors have their hands tied by some certification agencies who set Standards for certification based upon 'ideal conditions' which the Instructor cannot modify. Moreover, they often work for a LDS or a resort that wants to minimize the instruction to maximize profit and remain competitive.

The 'training standards bar' has been lowered several times over the years. This is also reflected in the recent changes made to the 'minimum requirements' of NAUI. The reason: to remain more competitive with PADI. Many NAUI Instructors don't seem to care, as the way they teach and what they require personally doesn't change, as they are free to add to the minimums. Historically however, the LDS and resorts now have another reason to exert pressure on what is required and ultimately what the deliverable often becomes.

The box has been opened a little more. They say that until we recognize history, it will be repeated. It is the 'what is' of the diving industry. Some like it, others don't. It is what it is...

However, the amount of new divers that dive with us and IGNORE ALL advice and recommendations we give them with regards to depth etc is stunning as are the number of divers who take this sport so lightly - many do not even know how their gear including computers work and many do not know what No Decompression Limits are.................

Perhaps they were never taught and therefore fail to appreciate what is being said to them. This is what the OP's all about... I think that most people will recognize warnings of danger and comply. It's called common sense...

 

[OkByMe]

I kind of read through some of the posts and some of the comments kind of hit the mark. BUT there are stupid people that you try to teach. Instead of just outright telling them they are too stupid to do this without harming themselves or someone else, we have to "bend" to the pressures of trying to work with them. So you spend 90% of your time and effort on the stupid people and somehow they manage to meet enough criteria to get through and turned loose. Thereafter when stupid does stupid things people think it is the fault of training. Nope! the number one rule of employee or performance evaluation is that people doing similar tasks under similar circumstances should provide similar results. Everyone else can do it, how come stupid can't? Has anyone looked at the targets of the people who have managed to qualify for a handgun carry permit? There are at least 4 to 5 complete misses and a few hits that are shoot throughs where bystanders could have died, yet they passed the minimum markmansship skill. SCUBA is like that... You just can't screw it up, we are not shopping for shoes here!!!

 

[Bob DBF]

Certification does not say what your ability level is. I agree...... It says what an agency has at some time VERIFIED your level to be. You should only be able to the limits of your documented /certified training.

May be they should start that verification thing from the top down, at which point the ability level of OW divers wouldn't be all over the map to start with. Of course if you haven't dove much in a couple of years you would need a requal, so the cert would need to expire so your level could be verified on an ongoing basis, can't trust logs 'cause they can be [-]horsed[/-] forged. Perhaps emergency drills on the requal to insure ability under pressure,,, Sorry, I got carried away, for a minute I forgot the drills were taken out of OW and not, from what I see, put into AOW.



Bob
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That's my point, people, by and large, are not taught that diving can be deadly, they are taught how safe it is, and they are not equipped with the skills, taught and trained to the level required to be useful in an emergency.