Dive sites//charters solo diving

[Debraw]

I have had to run people through the OW course who have more than 600 dives, in the Navy. We all know they were more than competent. I still charged them, they still needed the book, and they still had to go to the lake and do all the skills. It's just the way it is. I have zero respect for cards anymore. Do I like to collect them, yes. I think they are pretty ( insert sarcasm here). Should a dive shop fill tanks without a C-card? They can, but what if something happens to that diver? The dive shop is left holding the bag...again...
We can all say we don't respect the cards, a lot of people don't. They are a necessary evil. That's why the eternal fight of the agency war rages on.

 

[Timeliner]

Solo Means Solo...
That means you are born of the Sirens and raised by the Wolves. You must then live alone and construct all of your own Scuba gear using only your own inventions. Then you must show up alone at the dive site.... dive alone... and finish the dive alone. How ever all that turns out then is on you and nature.
If anybody else is involved with you that day or at any other time during your life then only the dive was solo. They can of course be subject to a Law Suit if anything goes bad. It's just that simple.

I have not seen a Lawyer collect a settlement from God and Mother Nature yet though I hear they are taking that up in the U.S. House after they finish with Rodger and the HGH thing.

After all...they say some people have more money then God but I bet he still has a pot load that they would love to fight over.
Do you think, maybe this the Hope & Change some are promising us.

 

[Teknadv3x]

I think you all are missing the point. LAWYERS want to see a C-CARD for the FAMILIES who will sue the BOAT OPERATION or DIVE SHOP. You will be dead. I think we all get that everyone thinks they have the skills to do whatever kind of diving you want. NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR SKILL LEVEL AFTER YOU ARE DEAD, BUT THEY DO CARE WHAT KIND OF CARD YOU HAVE. The Boat operator or dive shop is the one left holding the bag and a thumb up there ass saying " but they knew what they were doing" Lawyer says PROVE IT. Judge says "you don't have any proof?" Oh well bye bye life savings, bye bye your life's work, bye bye to your way of life because now you have lost your license, your instructor permit. But hey, that's not y'all's problem.....
Have some respect people don't write off LDS's, Dive ops, training parks, etc. because your tight asses won't shell out a few bucks for a stupid ass card.

Tight asses.... maybe $150 is not much to you but I work very hard for my money so I want some value for it.

I think the Solo cert. is a fantastic cert. and people that have not taken courses above and Beyond that cert. will walk away a better and safer diver no argument here. But my point is I think if someone has a Cert. idicaticting they have proficent skills well above the rec-solo cert then some common sense and professionalism should be exercised and allow that diver to dive solo w/o the Solo card. That is my point.


When I started Cave diving I had a sit down with my family and explained If I pass while divng, no one is to sue or hold anyone liable for my passing other than me PERIOD. So yes people do care what skill level and what card you had after your dead.

 

[Debraw]

Not everyone who has a tec card should be diving etc, not everyone who has an ow card should be diving for that matter. How can you "poo poo" the operator or LDS who has there life investment, money and soul, into an operation who must exercise all caution when dealing with divers on a day to day basis. Not just you, but anyone can say their families understand the risks associated with diving. It will not matter when you are gone, they will still sue. They all do. That's why Dr.s carry malpractice insurance, and so on and so forth. That's why I don't deal with that junk anymore. No one really understood the risks associated with a dive shop. It's not "if" it's "when".

Funny thing just happened. I went to the Petsmart to get my sister-in-law's dog shampooed and cut. 10 year old dog wearing a Rabies tag. They said i needed the paperwork from the vet so they could groom her. Why didn't they just trust me? The dog was wearing a tag ( insert pony bottle here), she obviously needed grooming ( insert proper dive equipment here). Why couldn't they just let her be groomed ( insert, let diver, dive here) . Oh they were afraid she would bite someone and give them rabies ( insert diver dies and family sues here). perfect timing for this thread!

 

[Wookie]

I am not cave certified, nor do I ever plan to be. As my wife is, I do know that redundancy is taught to cave divers. My question is: How does a cave diver mount a SMB, and exactly what kind of whistle does a caver carry? Yes, I know I'm being a smartass here, but the parallels between caving, extended range and solo are not parallel. Are tech divers trained well enough to dive solo? In most (like 99.999%) cases, I believe the answer is yes.

Regarding the drysuit certification question. Some things I don't ask the insurance company. Some things are better left unsaid. The solo question had to be asked, as during the insurance company investigation of an accident involving a crewmember diving solo extended range deco scooter on a non-working dive after his 7 chamber rides and a helocopter ride boat return early to the dock, my agent said "you let him do WHAT?" I didn't ask about scooter certifications, either. Do you think I should?

 

[Teknadv3x]

Regarding the drysuit certification question. Some things I don't ask the insurance company. Some things are better left unsaid. The solo question had to be asked, as during the insurance company investigation of an accident involving a crewmember diving solo extended range deco scooter on a non-working dive after his 7 chamber rides and a helocopter ride boat return early to the dock, my agent said "you let him do WHAT?" I didn't ask about scooter certifications, either. Do you think I should?

You know if your going to stand by your guns....load every chamber.
You chimed in on this thread defending the no solo card / no solo dive rule because of the massive liability exposure you, shops & OW sites face....and now you say somethings are best unsaid...you allow your crew members to dive w/o the speciality certs ....what kept the attorneys from coming after you?
Am I missing something here..

 

[scubashawn123]

Do you think I should?

I sure hope not. It gets silly after a while. Practice and education is what it is all about.

I don't get the dive insurance thing. I have to have professional dive insurance and if I do anything wrong the policy is written to not pay out and does not defend me. Kind of a waste of money if you ask me.

However, my non-diving small business insurance covered us up to $2 mil dollars for an accident/death that may have hurt one of our customers, and would defend me in court.

I don't get the current dive insurance provider for PADI. But I pay it like dues if you know what I mean.

I wish you all the best, diving is a tough business, (not a lot of profit) then add a boat, then add the mechanicals, then add up the weather, the gulf, fuel costs, what a list you could write.

Regards,

Shawn O'Shea

 

[Debraw]

You know if your going to stand by your guns....load every chamber.
You chimed in on this thread defending the no solo card / no solo dive rule because of the massive liability exposure you, shops & OW sites face....and now you say somethings are best unsaid...you allow your crew members to dive w/o the speciality certs ....what kept the attorneys from coming after you?
Am I missing something here..

Where does he say the guy didn't have the proper certs?

 

[ianr33]

How can you "poo poo" the operator or LDS who has there life investment, money and soul, into an operation who must exercise all caution when dealing with divers on a day to day basis.

Not poo-pooing anybody. I think Frank runs a good operation and does what he sees as necessary to run his business successfully,as he has every right to do.His regulations probably work fine for 99% of divers.

I just choose to dive elsewhere these days. Thats all.

And I hope you managed to get your poor little doggie groomed eventually.

 

[ianr33]

Where does he say the guy didn't have the proper certs?

Is there even such a thing as an Open Water DPV cert?

Sounds like a great business opportunity if not.

Just think of the extra profit centres:

Open water DPV Pilot
Advanced Open Water DPV Pilot
Adventure DPV Pilot
Solo DPV Pilot
Boat DPV Pilot
PeakPerformance Bouyancy DPV Pilot
etc etc.