Dive shops and training: the disconnect with reality

[idocsteve]

That's all well and good, however I don't believe that the purpose of a dry suit is a redundant source of buoyancy

You apparently never took a solo course if you believe this.

Well, you're wrong on that one, because I did in fact take a Solo course and received a Solo certification, so that's strike one.

It's safe to say that I never took a Dry Suit course however.

Perhaps that's what you meant to type?

 

[BabyDuck]

Great. You can thank me later.

no, i won't. do you see where bob was talking about *himself* going through learning? anyway, i don't think we have to worry about you learning.

 

[Sas]

I simply stated that I do not require extra gear to compensate for skills shortcomings

Not really something you can judge yourself

Some divers who do use gear to compensate for their own skills shortcomings might be insulted by that statement.

I would suggest to them that they learn to care less about what strangers on the internet think of them.

That does not mean that all drysuit/doubles divers compensate for poor skills by using drysuits and doubles.

Lovely of you to have decided that, given you don't dive in a drysuit or doubles and therefore have no experience on which to draw an opinion on as to how they impact on diving and one's skills.

 

[idocsteve]

no, i won't. do you see where bob was talking about *himself* going through learning? anyway, i don't think we have to worry about you learning.

Yes, I saw where Bob was taking about himself.

Let me give you a make believe analogy so that you can understand it better, ok?

Let's assume that BabyDuck dives with a rectangular shaped tank, and she feels that's the best way to dive based on her experiences.

I come along and say "I went through the rectangular tank learning phase myself, but I have moved on to cylindrical shaped tanks".

I'm talking about myself, but at the same time I am suggesting that anyone who dives with a rectangular tank is at an earlier (and notably inferior) stage of the learning process.

No need to thank me for the clarification, I know you wouldn't anyway

 

[jbtut]

remember, you're not dropping weights to be *able* to surface. you wouldn't be able to control your rate of ascent and would have higher risk of dcs. if you have a problem, you're dropping weights *at* the surface to float better.

for usual circumstances, recreational divers probably don't need much in the way of redundant buoyancy, but if you penetrate wrecks or caves there's a bigger chance of poking a hole in your bc bladder and doubles and all the tech stuff is heavy so more buoyancy capability up to a point is better.

and yes, an smb is considered another source of buoyancy.

Don't you also risk puncturing your dry suit? Wouldn't that be worse than poking a hole in a semi-dry suit? In the case that you punctured both BCD and and dry suit, you'd be in bad shape right?

I've never dove in a dry suit, so I don't know, but it seems more vulnerable to puncture than a BCD bladder.

 

[Sas]

I was comparing doubles/drysuit diving to singles/pony/semidrysuit diving as has been my own personal experience having dived in the company of divers using the former gear configuration while I used the latter gear configuration and seeing no benefit to their set up over mine in terms of safety, comfort and dive duration.

Then why did you post a picture of yourself compared to Grateful Diver and ask people to judge who was more streamlined?

As much as I dislike agreeing with Idoc, I do in this case. Drysuits are beneficial beyond the warmth factor as they are neutrally bouyant unlike thicker cheaply made wetsuits.

Yes, I know. I was explaining to him the concept of redundant buoyancy, not saying that drysuits only provide warmth as he appears to have never heard of it. You aren't agreeing with any point he made. My drysuit is buoyant, not neutral though, so your comment does not apply to all of them.

Well, you're wrong on that one, because I did in fact take a Solo course and received a Solo certification, so that's strike one.

Well your education in the area of redundancy appears to be lacking. Also I am interested to see your calculations for bailout for your 135ft dives if you have them handy.

It's safe to say that I never took a Dry Suit course however.

Clearly.

 

[idocsteve]

Not really something you can judge yourself

I think I can. I conduct my dives in a safe and enjoyable manner, with a fairly simple and relatively streamlined rig (long reg hoses and dangling safety sausages not withstanding). It works for me, that is my own judgement and I am qualified and able to do so.

I would suggest to them that they learn to care less about what strangers on the internet think of them.

Me too. Anyone who gets bent out of shape by something an anonymous internet stranger says...needs to work a bit on their 'reactiveness', to say the least.

Lovely of you to have decided that, given you don't dive in a drysuit or doubles and therefore have no experience on which to draw an opinion on as to how they impact on diving and one's skills.

Thank you darling, I do appreciate the sentiment in your beautifully crafted posts and carefully chosen descriptive words.

Given that I know relatively little about drysuit and doubles diving (other than what I have read and seen firsthand by observing others)...but having dived in the presence of those using those particular pieces of gear, and seeing no significant difference in their comfort, duration, or safety, and supported by objective data from Howard Kleins chalkboard on the Eagles Nest, I do feel that I have reliable data from which to draw an opinion.

Just like every qualified medical or clinical trial uses a control group and an "unknown", my experience using the "known" which is my rig, and the "unknown" which is the doubles/dry suit rig, I do feel that my opinion is valid.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I simply stated that I do not require extra gear to compensate for skills shortcomings

... and yet you have neither ever used that gear nor even understand how it is used.

How ... ignorant ... of you.

Some divers who do use gear to compensate for their own skills shortcomings might be insulted by that statement.

I don't find your stupidity insulting at all ... merely a waste of time. It is annoying that you go to such great lengths to hijack every thread on ScubaBoard with nonsense ... but that's more a reflection on you than anything else.

And it's ironic in the extreme that you ... probably the most prolific poster on ScubaBoard when it comes to insulting others ... should somehow fiind something someone else said insulting.

That does not mean that all drysuit/doubles divers compensate for poor skills by using drysuits and doubles.

I think it's you who are compensating for something.

Suggesting that divers who use retractors are "going through a learning phase" is an insult directed at ALL retractor users.

And now you're misrepresenting what was actually said. What I said was "I went through the retractor phase about nine years ago" ... nowhere did I state or imply what you just wrote. If you're going to use quotation marks, at least have the integrity to quote what was actually said.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/5030209-post49.html

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[idocsteve]

Then why did you post a picture of yourself compared to Grateful Diver and ask people to judge who was more streamlined?

Because I feel that my rig is more streamlined than Bob's and I wanted a few votes that would be more objective than my own which of course contains personal bias.

Also I am interested to see your calculations for bailout for your 135ft dives if you have them handy.

Got em right here:

If out of gas at whatever depth I happen to be at:

1- Switch to pony
2- Swim upwards very quickly
3- Breathe as conservatively as possible

At 15 feet attempt a safety stop and stay there until the Pony starts to breath hard, then exhale slowly as I make that final 15 foot ascent.

 

[Sas]

I think I can. I conduct my dives in a safe and enjoyable manner, with a fairly simple and relatively streamlined rig (long reg hoses and dangling safety sausages not withstanding). It works for me, that is my own judgement and I am qualified and able to do so.

I think I dive quite safely too, but I know that there is always room for MUCH MORE improvement.

Given that I know relatively little about drysuit and doubles diving (other than what I have read and seen firsthand by observing others)...but having dived in the presence of those using those particular pieces of gear, and seeing no significant difference in their comfort, duration, or safety, and supported by objective data from Howard Kleins chalkboard on the Eagles Nest, I do feel that I have reliable data from which to draw an opinion.

Your dive total 100-199. This means that n=a small number (where n=amount of divers and dives you have been able to use to form this opinion). A small number is never good to use when making assumptions.

Me personally, n= also a small number and what I have learned from my diving is that it is very hard to make generalisations about any type of diver.

Just like every qualified medical or clinical trial uses a control group and an "unknown", my experience using the "known" which is my rig, and the "unknown" which is the doubles/dry suit rig, I do feel that my opinion is valid.

My opinion is that your opinion is not valid. You criticise things you have never used, you show lack of understanding when criticising the things that you have not used, you don't seem to show a great deal of interest in improving further (though there appears to be some inbetween the bravado) and you also are dismissive of people here who have been verified to be good divers with useful knowledge to impart to others. I realise though, that this comment will not have any impact on your own opinion of yourself but I do like to give my opinion anyway.