Dive shops and training: the disconnect with reality

[idocsteve]

And it's ironic in the extreme that you ... probably the most prolific poster on ScubaBoard when it comes to insulting others ... should somehow fiind something someone else said insulting.

Did I? Because I said that "someone else might find something that was said" to be insulting?

Some divers who do use gear to compensate for their own skills shortcomings might be insulted by that statement.

Nice going on that one Bob. A bit of a reach, but you get a +1 for the attempt.

And now you're misrepresenting what was actually said. What I said was "I went through the retractor phase about nine years ago"

Bob whether you realize it or not, by you stating what I directly quoted above, is suggesting that those who use retractors are at an earlier (the implication being inferior) stage of diving than you.

 

[Sas]

If out of gas at whatever depth I happen to be at:

1- Switch to pony
2- Swim upwards very quickly
3- Breathe as conservatively as possible

At 15 feet attempt a safety stop and stay there until the Pony starts to breath hard, then exhale slowly as I make that final 15 foot ascent.

That is not how to work out how much bailout gas you should carry. I would explain but it's now 3.30am here and I'm done postprocessing all my photos from tonight's dive, so time to go to bed. PM me if you are interested.

Also whoever your solo instructor was, you should ask for a refund.

Edit: Start with this article Grateful Diver has made on gas management: http://www.nwgratefuldiver.com/articles/gas.html

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Because I feel that my rig is more streamlined than Bob's and I wanted a few votes that would be more objective than my own which of course contains personal bias.

Well, you got 'em ... happy now?

Got em right here:

If out of gas at whatever depth I happen to be at:

1- Switch to pony
2- Swim upwards very quickly
3- Breathe as conservatively as possible

At 15 feet attempt a safety stop and stay there until the Pony starts to breath hard, then exhale slowly as I make that final 15 foot ascent.

Great gas plan ... especially for a solo diver.

Can you possibly project any more ignorance than that? I truly hope your solo instructor is reading this thread.

And, FWIW - this month's Alert Diver magazine has a great article by Mike Ange. You might find it useful ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[idocsteve]

My opinion is that your opinion is not valid. You criticise things you have never used, you show lack of understanding when criticising the things that you have not used

I stated that I see no benefit in the diving conditions that I face using doubles or a drysuit because of what I have observed from diving with those that do use those particular pieces of gear, which I substantiate by supplying data relative to bottom times as posted on The Eagle's Nest dive boat, other diver's subjective reports of "being cold", and the known safety and redundancy of a Pony Bottle as compared to a doubles rig.

you don't seem to show a great deal of interest in improving further

I have already posted on this thread that thanks to observations and comments made by fellow ScubaBoard members, that I plan to shorten my regulator hose and place my safety sausage on a retractor.

you also are dismissive of people here who have been verified to be good divers with useful knowledge to impart to others.

Absolutely true.

I don't take anyone's word for anything. You say Bob's a great diver, someone else says someone else is a great diver. I don't believe it unless I see it with my own eyes.

Here on ScubaBoard I base my opinions of my fellow divers on what they have to say, and how they say it. Nothing more. The notable exception being ScubaBoard member Wetdawg who I have had the privilege of meeting personally a month ago when he certified my girlfriend. He's a competent diver and talented instructor.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Did I? Because I said that "someone else might find something that was said" to be insulting?

I was thinking more along these lines ...

I really don't find it insulting as much as I find it to be closeminded, presumptive, and illogical thinking, and when I read posts like yours I shake my head because it's just so typical of the rather thickheaded mindset of so many I come across on the internet and in real life.

When it comes to diving in particular, I guess I feel sorry for "experienced divers" like you who refuse to consider other options because they think of them as a "phase" that is below their level of experience.

You could have your gear neatly stowed in your BCD pocket and yet you swim around like a Christmas tree, but hey, whatever works for you.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/5031672-post74.html

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[idocsteve]

That is not how to work out how much bailout gas you should carry. I would explain but it's now 3.30am here and I'm done postprocessing all my photos from tonight's dive, so time to go to bed. PM me if you are interested.

Also whoever your solo instructor was, you should ask for a refund.

Edit: Start with this article Grateful Diver has made on gas management: NWGratefulDiver.com

I have previously determined that I can safely bailout from 135 feet, the hypothetical maximum depth I would ever be diving to, with a 19cf Pony bottle should I experience an unexpected OOA situation. My max depth to date is 130 feet and most of my dives are below 100 feet.

That's good enough for me.

Your results may vary.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I have previously determined that I can safely bailout from 135 feet, the hypothetical maximum depth I would ever be diving to, with a 19cf Pony bottle should I experience an unexpected OOA situation.

How?

You're neck deep in your own BS ... keep on spewing ... maybe you'll drown in it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[idocsteve]

maybe you'll drown in it.

Hoping that I will drown and publicly stating so is a very mean thing to say and very uncalled for, Bob.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Hoping that I will drown and publicly stating so is a very mean thing to say and very uncalled for, Bob.

It's a warning ... not a hope.

What you just posted as your "bailout plan" is a hope ... and I have known people who died by placing confidence in such hopes as what you posted.

For god's sakes man ... if you're going to solo dive, I should HOPE that you'd have a much better plan than that.

You have to be one of the most closed-minded, overconfident posters who has ever posted on ScubaBoard. That attitude can get you very dead in the real world.

What I HOPE is that you survive long enough to recognize your own stupidity ... and decide to do something about it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TSandM]

The concept of redundant buoyancy is most applicable to people diving doubles and carrying deco bottles, where the diver may begin the dive 20 or more lbs negative with equipment and gas. In some cases, such a diver may not require any additional ballast at all, and therefore has no weight to drop. A wing failure at depth could result in a diver unable to regain the surface -- unlikely, but possible, and technical dives are all planned to consider the unlikely but potentially lethal possibilities. Redundant buoyancy can include a dry suit or a lift bag.

I don't think ANYBODY would argue that a drysuit has more drag than a wetsuit -- one of the things I like about the Fusion is that it minimizes that. But in 43 degree water, I can guarantee you there are VERY few people diving wet. In Puget Sound, of year-round divers, I would be quite willing to bet that more than 90% are diving drysuits. This is definitely a choice made for many safety reasons, among them that a cold diver is a clumsy and often a stupid diver. The disadvantage in streamlining is made up for by the advantage in warmth . . . AND redundant buoyancy, in an environment where a lot of ballast has to be used to compensate for exposure protection. I'd sure rather surface using the gas in my suit, than drop my weights at depth and be unable to control my ascent at the end.

Shops do a lot of unwarranted upselling, but counseling Pacific Northwest divers into dry suits is not part of it.