Dive shops and training: the disconnect with reality

[idocsteve]

when you dive doubles, drysuit, and big ass camera, post a pic. until then, it's no use comparing.

I have found in my cold water diving experience that on my single Al80 with my SemiDry suit, I'm down about as long as the doubles/drysuit guys..and my photos come out clear and sharp with my 5 megapixel digital camera and universal strobe.

I don't need extra gear to compensate for skills shortcomings

 

[Sas]

I have found in my cold water diving experience that on my single Al80 with my SemiDry suit, I'm down about as long as the doubles/drysuit guys..and my photos come out clear and sharp with my 5 megapixel digital camera and universal strobe.

I don't need extra gear to compensate for skills shortcomings

Where is your redundant air and lift?

 

[idocsteve]

Where is your redundant air and lift?

That picture was taken during a Bahamas trip back in 2006, back then I either carried a Spare Air or no redundant air source, I wasn't diving Solo then. The second reg is an Air2 on the BCD vent hose.

I don't know what you mean by "lift".

 

[Sas]

That picture was taken during a Bahamas trip back in 2006, back then I either carried a Spare Air or no redundant air source, I wasn't diving Solo then. The second reg is an Air2 on the BCD vent hose.

I don't know what you mean by "lift".

A drysuit gives you a redundant source of buoyancy, which is nice (as well keeping you much warmer in general) and another tank gives you a redundant source of gas, also handy.

Doubles and drysuits are not there to compensate for lack of skill for most people.

If you want to dive with an Air2, lots of retractors and not know about redundancy and think that doubles drysuit divers are compensating for their lack of skill with equipment, knock yourself out. But to criticise others for their gear choices is hypocritical, given you complain that other people don't like your gear setup.

You are not a very experienced diver. This is not a criticism as I have not been diving long either (so a bit hypocritical if it was). But you would do well to listen to other people who are far more experienced than you as like it or not, experience generally brings more wisdom about diving and dive gear and so forth.

 

[psychocabbage]

I've seen many people who think "they can do it differently" and buy into a dive shop. Generally, the ideology lasts for the first summer... when winter hits, and course numbers drop, which means gear sales drop.... they then start discounting training further to get people in the door. By the end of the first winter, if they are still in business, they are operating hand to mouth, month by month, desperately doing anything that will try and keep their business afloat for the summer with some hope of surviving the next winter. They will cut corners, they will buy cheap product hoping to sell it at a higher margin.

Far too many dont have the "business sense" to get into business in the first place.

For me, I would go online right away and add that as a possible place to get some influx of $$. So few diveshops actually sell anything online. I would talk to the tire kickers and such that walked in and if they are thinking of buying online, I would not bash them or tell them horror stories, I would ask them to give me a chance to get the business and see if I can even come close to the price. By not bashing and not belittling them, I would most likely gain their repair/overhaul business since they wont be scared to bring it in to me.

I personally have thought about opening my own dive shop but will wait. We have enough pots on the burners rignt now.. 2 business and another on the fire with 3 kids is more than most should have to deal with.. hahha

 

[idocsteve]

A drysuit gives you a redundant source of buoyancy, which is nice (as well keeping you much warmer in general) and another tank gives you a redundant source of gas, also handy.

That's all well and good, however I don't believe that the purpose of a dry suit is a redundant source of buoyancy, and as far as another tank giving a redundant source of gas, yes I know that. Which is why I now carry a 19cf pony bottle on all dives.

Doubles and drysuits are not there to compensate for lack of skill for most people.

I have found that I enjoy a dive that is about the same length as the dry 'doubles guys, and when I find myself a bit chilly on a dive I notice the dry guys say that they too were cold. No significant difference there between the drysuit / doubles guys and the SemiDry singles guy (me).

So in the same "contextual" dive environment, I enjoy a simpler, more streamlined rig.

 

[northen diver]

That's all well and good, however I don't believe that the purpose of a dry suit is a redundant source of buoyancy, and as far as another tank giving a redundant source of gas, yes I know that. Which is why I now carry a 19cf pony bottle on all dives.

You apparently never took a solo course if you believe this.

 

[Sas]

That's all well and good, however I don't believe that the purpose of a dry suit is a redundant source of buoyancy, and as far as another tank giving a redundant source of gas, yes I know that. Which is why I now carry a 19cf pony bottle on all dives.

On some dives where the water is warm I wear my drysuit solely for redundant buoyancy, not warmth, as I dive with steel doubles. So yes, it can be the sole purpose of a drysuit as well as one of the purposes.

A 19cf pony would not be enough bail out for me on the dives that I do with my twins.

I have found that I enjoy a dive that is about the same length as the dry 'doubles guys, and when I find myself a bit chilly on a dive I notice the dry guys say that they too were cold. No significant difference there between the drysuit / doubles guys and the SemiDry singles guy (me).

Well you're diving with woosy drysuit divers then. There is no comparison to my dive times in a drysuit when compared to a wetsuit for me. In a wetsuit I can do 70mins at 9C. In a drysuit, two hours and air is usually limiting not warmth. Everyone is different, and everyone has different cold tolerances though so that is just my experience. Also the more I dive the better my buoyancy control gets, the colder I get and the more I need my drysuit. I used to wonder why I could do three dives in the dead of winter in my wetsuit and not get too cold, where as now I just can't do it, and when I compare videos of me, I suspect it was probably the constant finning and hand flapping keeping me warm.

So in the same "contextual" dive environment, I enjoy a simpler, more streamlined rig.

I think your rig could be more streamlined, as per suggestions here already. Usually I wouldn't tell someone this, but you appear to be arguing that your gear is streamlined, which indicates to me that streamlining is important to you so you might want to hear suggestions for improvement.

 

[idocsteve]

On some dives where the water is warm I wear my drysuit solely for redundant buoyancy, not warmth, as I dive with steel doubles. So yes, it can be the sole purpose of a drysuit as well as one of the purposes.

I did not know that.

A 19cf pony would not be enough bail out for me on the dives that I do with my twins.

So you're one of those deep techie divers then. That's out of my realm. All of my diving is done within the 135 feet recreational depth. I have not yet had the need or desire to expand my diving beyond that point.

Well you're diving with woosy drysuit divers then. There is no comparison to my dive times in a drysuit when compared to a wetsuit for me. In a wetsuit I can do 70mins at 9C. In a drysuit, two hours and air is limiting not warmth. Everyone is different, and everyone has different cold tolerances though so that is just my experience.

That seems to be the case. When I dived from Howard Kline's boat, the Eagle's Nest, a few summers back...I was always quite surprised when looking at the chalkboard he uses to keep track of divers and their in/out times. I was always within a few minutes of just about every diver, many of whom used doubles and drysuits, and even had a short deco stop in there sometimes. I figured what's the point of increasing the complexity of my rig for a relatively nominal gain?

Also I'm a REALLY hairy dude and maybe that has something to do with my cold tolerance?

I think your rig could be more streamlined, as per suggestions here already.

I'm going to look into a shorter regulator hose...in fact I'll be at the dive shop sometime this week to have the vent hose on my Balance BCD swapped out with a longer one, that would be a great time to look into that.

As far as my dangling sausage, maybe I'll just get a 4th retractor.

 

[mongodives]

To start this out on topic, I agree that some shops seem to have a disconnect and there are people posting here not helping to disprove the thesis.

OT I don't like the term Christmas tree being applied to divers, because I like Christmas trees.

I prefer floating entanglement hazard. Now my idea of a floating entaglement hazard is routinely redifined based on my experience and the experience of those I'm observing. I'm sure that some could look at anyone of the setups I dive and apply the term to me,again based on their experience, do I care? NO. It works for me.
Will I listen to a recommendation and try it? absolutely, why not benefit from someone elses trial and error.