Dive Shop Loyalty

[Papa_Bear]

You know, this whole situation leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I was really looking forward to my check out dives. These email exchanges are upsetting.

No worries, it won't keep me from diving. But yes Papa Bear, I am seriously questioning this shop.

I have forwarded the emails to the owner and asked a couple questions. We will see how he responds.

My post was more general and not directed at you.... You should find out what is going on! Just like showing up at the air port and having to pay a fuel charge, you have to find out what is happening! Maybe something not seen? Can't hurt to ask!

BO, I think thats true of everyone! The point is People own these shops! Your wacko if you have a relationship with an inanimate object! and therefore explains #2!:no What part of Far exchange don't you get?

 

[ReefHound]

I just got an email from my instructor. Like I said, our check out dives are 6/7 & 6/8. We were supposed to do a weight check in the pool with our wetsuits on in May. There wasn't time/space for us to pop in during the class that was going on that weekend. NOW she tells me we have to pay extra to do our quick hop in the pool. When we took the class, there were 3 days scheduled for the class. We used 1 1/2. Only 1 trip to the pool instead of 2.

Am I missing something? Didn't I already pay for the time and pool space?

Depends. If you signed up for group instruction rather than private instruction then you are expected to show up on the scheduled dates for class and pool. If you missed the pool dates they had provided (no matter how good the reason) and they have to schedule a special session for you to make up, why shouldn't you pay for it? Somebody has to.

 

[Merchant.r]

Reefhound-

It was a 3 person class. 2 of which were my boyfriend and myself. When we realized we were going to not need the 2nd pool trip and 3rd class day, she suggested we get together closer to the check out dates to get the weight thing settled.

There was never any mention of it costing more.

 

[Boxcar Overkill]

BO, I think thats true of everyone! The point is People own these shops! Your wacko if you have a relationship with an inanimate object! and therefore explains #2!:no What part of Far exchange don't you get?

If by "fair exchange" you mean that I am interested in the shop owner making a decent living, you're mistaken. I want the best value I can get, and whether that is a good or bad deal for the shop owner is irrelevant to me. I feed my family, he can feed his.


The problem is, many (if not most) LDS's have an inefficient business model, wherein they can't afford to compete with internet brokers. It's not that the owners are bad people, or that they are out to gouge their customers. It's just that the volume and low overhead of internet delivery is superior to an LDS. With a few narrow exceptions, I don't see why people continue to pay extra at their LDS, but it appearently is out of some sense of loyalty to that business or person.

My sense of loyalty doesn't take me that far. I won't give away extra money to be nice to a nice guy just because he is friendly with me.

I will pay extra to professionals I trust to help me make selections, configure gear, etc. That service is still needed, and it's something that should demand pay. But the service should be separated out from inefficient business model. That's why I like the idea of instructors teaching outside of the shops. I don't want to be lassoed into the product distribution activities. I want to pay for services.

So to sum it all up, I'm not all that loyal to anyone. I pay for services that I think are the best I can get for the price I am willing to pay, and if someone else comes along and can do it better for cheaper, I'll generally go that direction. Because the only people that I'll give my money to purely out of loyalty is my family, not the guys down at the LDS.

 

[Tom725]

Wow, too bad no one has a strong opinion.

If you are patronizing a "dive shop" then paying more for a piece of gear is likely a waste of money. If your dive shop is also a dive center in that it is the center of diving activity offering much more than gear then perhaps paying a little more for the "inefficient brick and mortar" business model might make sense. A dive center should provide instruction and counseling on what instruction is appropriate. A dive center should provide dive opportunities, charters, presentations on local diving, repairs service, information on local diving and a friendly face. LDC's are a very low margin business usually run by people who know a lot about their hobby but not so much about the business. If you find a dive center and not just a shop it will earn your loyalty and you will not need to post in the threads like this that keep popping up.

 

[Boxcar Overkill]

Wow, too bad no one has a strong opinion.

Sorry, I was trying to cut to the chase. I probably should have put some smiley faces in there or something to lighten it up.

If you are patronizing a "dive shop" then paying more for a piece of gear is likely a waste of money. If your dive shop is also a dive center in that it is the center of diving activity offering much more than gear then perhaps paying a little more for the "inefficient brick and mortar" business model might make sense.

To be fair, if it were only "a little more" this wouldn't be an issue. Usually, the prices are a good bit higher, at least at the dive shops that are in my local.

Let me ask you, if a family member came to you for advice on getting a new BC or dive computer, would you tell him to pay the extra $100 your local LDS would charge, or would you have them buy it online and save the $100? Because that is what it sounds like you are advising us to do.

A dive center should provide instruction and counseling on what instruction is appropriate. A dive center should provide dive opportunities, charters, presentations on local diving, repairs service, information on local diving and a friendly face.

Yeah, and I'll happily pay for those services so long as they present a better experience then their competition. But its a non-sequitar to leap from that to "therefore you should pay a lot of extra money for your dive gear" out of loyalty.

... If you find a dive center and not just a shop it will earn your loyalty and you will not need to post in the threads like this that keep popping up.

Nah, I've found lots of really good dive shops. I use their guides, their services, etc. But that's because they do a good job, and I'm happy to pay them for their services. I just won't give them money for a poor deal out of loyalty.

 

[ReefHound]

If you are patronizing a "dive shop" then paying more for a piece of gear is likely a waste of money. If your dive shop is also a dive center in that it is the center of diving activity offering much more than gear then perhaps paying a little more for the "inefficient brick and mortar" business model might make sense.

That's a good point, noting the difference between a dive shop and a dive center. Perhaps that's part of the reason for such varied experiences and opinions. Some of us have found independent dive clubs do a better job serving as the hub of diving activity. We have no need for a "Cheers" version of a dive shop.

Another thing is people apparently have wildly different ideas of "a little more" or "a few bucks". I see an enormous price disparity between local shops and online retailers. There may be exceptions on some items here and there. Some may price match or get close but why should I have to fight tooth and nail to get what I can get upfront somewhere else? And then having that "favor" hanging over my head?

As for loyalty, maybe that too is a matter of definition. Loyalty to me implies an obligation and I feel no obligation to give my business to one shop or another.

 

[h2odragon1]

I have been going to one dive shop for 6 years, and I do go to another shop for some things that are not available at my base shop My lessons are at my base shop. However; my base shop has come under new ownership, and is having 'newshop' jitters and minor service issues. I will continue to go to them, until they have done something to drive me away.
Loyalty has some merit. The rewards go both ways. I had trouble with some equiptment and my Loyalty to the dive area I was at, got me rental gear for less than the going rate.
Do not wory about being loyal to two dive shops, keep going to them. As for lessons, you will find that it is the Instructor that is most important. It is your relationship with the PEOPLE that is what we call LOYALTY.

 

[shoredivr]

I'm still trying to figure out why someone would want to go to the dive shop to shoot the breeze.

Because I like the people who own it and who work there. I like discussing about gear and dive locations around Ontario that I've not been to yet.

Online does not meet everyone's socializing needs, thank goodness.

 

[brutus_scuba]

The enviroment for diveshops is different everywhere. The enviroment for the diving community is different everywhere. In Columbus at least there are probably 15-20 divers who everyone knows they get out and dive just about every weekend. For the most part those divers bounce back and fourth to get the best deal they can, and the dive shops around here treat them with respect, they know that those individuals can't be dupped or tricked and they get treated the most fairly at the dive shops. Dive shops seem to find ways to keep those folks happy and treat them a little different than the regulars that are completely loyal to just one shop. Expierenced folks though know what they want when they walk in the door and a sales pitch isn't going to get the shop anywhere. They have a certain regulator or wing they are looking for.

For what that's worth these guys aren't taking AOW or Rescue, or or any other recreational classes anymore, they haven't in some time, so it's more just equipment needs for them. In terms of classes there are tradeoffs to staying with one instructor vs. having a few different instructors.

Positives, The instructor is going to become familiar with you, and be able to give you more personalized and relative feedback. Teh instructors can watch everything from your bouyancy to your kick and critque. Many times an instructor who you've taken many classes with will help you with a skill outside the scope of the class, b/c he knows it should have been critqued more in another class in your training history.

On the other hand it's good to have many opinions. I think the frog kick is the only way to kick in scuba gear. The instructor I did my OW through flutter kicked everywhere, had I stayed with him throughout my diving career I would never have learned the frog kick, (or the bouyancy skills I have now) for that matter either.

I took my OW course through one instructor and then AOW, RESCUE, NITROX, CAVERN, NIGHT, ADV EANx, and whatever other certifications I have through another instructor. I appreciate that after OW I was able to identify that I could have a better instructor, so I switched. I also appreciate that I have taken the second round of classes with one instructor because he knows me well now, and is actually my regular dive buddy b/c we enjoy diving together so much. If I ever have any questions about my skill level or equipment or courses I knwo he has a good understanding of my level of diving and can answer me honestly.