Dive Flags Again

[Ontario Diver]

There is such a thing called the Collisions Regulations that is part of the Canada Shipping Act, referencing diver down flags and their significance to boaters: http://www.tc.gc.ca/MarineSafety/tp/Tp10038/19-ns-bam-diving-flags.htm

Unfortunatly the Canadian Shipping Act cover only the use of the Alpha Flag and that only from a ship. There is no mention of the "diver down" flag in the Shipping Act or the Collison Regulations.

The Private Bouy regulations http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/S-9/SOR-99-335/52973.html#rid-52985 does not count for most divers as it covers permanent and semi permanent markers. It doesn't cover Flags flown from a vessels or a bouy being used as a shore marker or towed by a diver. Although it does give the governement the right to remove them if they do not comply with the act.

There seems to be no legal recognition of the Diver down flag. So what could the course cover?

 

[Seabear70]

Aiming for you - give me a break. You can think what you want about boaters, but the number of people who would intentially try and kill a diver, as you suggest, would be miniscule. Most boaters are ignorant to what a dive flag is, and that is nothing but our lousy education and lack of enforcement.

To suggest that boaters would actually try and kill a diver is insane. Sorry - but I have a little more faith in human beings than that.

I hate to be the one to break this to you... But...

There are some truly sick human biengs out there, and if you give them just a little alchahol, and a way to do it that won't get their hands dirty or allow other people to blame them, you'd better stay out of their way.

 

[starfish365]

ok.ok.....so we all agree things have to change. How do we make it happen. How does one get a new bill passed - ask you MP or MPP....???? Start a petition?

Lets be serious now and stop beating the dead horse and start training a new one. How can we as a diving society (and we are a large one) succeed in getting the attention of the government regarding the necessity of upgrading the law for boaters and the consequences for ignoring a dive flag.

Do the dive flags themselves need to be redesigned? Do they need to be larger, taller?

 

[Seabear70]

ok.ok.....so we all agree things have to change. How do we make it happen. How does one get a new bill passed - ask you MP or MPP....???? Start a petition?

Lets be serious now and stop beating the dead horse and start training a new one. How can we as a diving society (and we are a large one) succeed in getting the attention of the government regarding the necessity of upgrading the law for boaters and the consequences for ignoring a dive flag.

Do the dive flags themselves need to be redesigned? Do they need to be larger, taller?

About the only thiong you can do is organize, create a sort of recreational union. Then move in mass to support legislation that protects divers.

What you will wind up with though is areas that are roped off for use as diving preserves, and I do not think that is what you want.

 

[starfish365]

See that's what I mean...the divers get blamed for trying to protect themselves. There has to be a way to get boaters to recognize and obey the rules. Thereby must be made a law. Its not likely that areas in the lake will be roped off for diver access only....that's not the point. Crosswalks are still crossed by motor vehicles - they just have to obey the speed and pedestrians laws. Same difference.

 

[artw]

Regarding boating laws.
Isn't there a law that states boats shalt not exceed 10kmh 30ft from shore unless they are towing a skier?
I have also seen NO WAKE zone signs in the St Lawrence they are big and hard to miss.
that being said how many times have you seen boaters ignore these signs. I only had my boat in the river for 4 weeks before the season even started and I saw people breaking these rules.

if you make a rule regarding dive flags or a dive sanctuary or whatever who's to say people will obey the rules? when was the last time someone was killed from drunk driving or driving with no seatbelts?

I think we as divers have to remain vigilant that b.s. will happen eventually and be cautious and accept the risks involved in doing our sport

 

[Ontario Diver]

if you make a rule regarding dive flags or a dive sanctuary or whatever who's to say people will obey the rules? when was the last time someone was killed from drunk driving or driving with no seatbelts?

I think we as divers have to remain vigilant that b.s. will happen eventually and be cautious and accept the risks involved in doing our sport

Agreed, but without a law in place there are no rules to obey.

You are correct, you can't legislate common sense. But the next time that a PWC uses a DD flag as a salom marker, it would be nice if the OPP wacked them with a $500 fine.

 

[simcoediver]

I think also that a dive flag is not enough, I for one will be getting a bigger flag and a new sign under the flag that will read in big letters "Diver Below Stay Back 300 feet " and Im also planning on having some signs made up to post at the docks at my local marinas saying "Warning ,when you see this flag {divers flag]stay back 300 feet divers are below" ,,,,perhaps will help a little bit.

 

[simcoediver]

Yes,I know 300 feet is more that what the rules or law say it supposed to be ,I just feel that 300 feet is a more comfortable distance for boaters to stay back in a lake.

 

[Groundhog246]

Will your lettering be large enough to be read, without binoculars in excess of 300 feet? In know where you're coming from and am in agreement, just pointing out practicalities. Remember the bumper sticker "If you can read this, you're too d**n close".

Someone mentioned a "union", we have one. It's called the Ontario Underwater Council and is recognized by the Ontario Government as the official voice of scuba divers in Ontario. So if we want a law, then joining the OUC and directing them to lobby for one, would be the best approach.

And artw, it's 30 meters from shore (100 feet), unless you're in a river, etc or it's otherwise posted. But just as on our highways, there's not enough enforcement. And some of the enforcers (highways and waterways) are some of the worst offenders, but no one ever tickets them.