Despite the warnings people traveled to XYZ and are now stuck. Who is responsible?

[chillyinCanada]

Ray, I have been thinking about yours posts, they are really good and I think this conversation is really helpful. So again my thanks for chiming in.



The current administration has certainly dropped the ball in multiple ways but there are others who are really trying and in some cases fighting against the current administration. That said, we should leave that out of the conversation.



Not sure the burning house is a good analogy but I do get your point. If one is going to get sick one wants to get sick where they feel most comfortable. For those of us in first world countries that is home. I will address the Dept of State and airlines below.



I would agree more often people make these judgements lacking a good understanding. However, I think there is a large body of people on this board who have traveled extensively who do have a good idea of the issues. One reason I wanted to start the discussion so that others could perhaps learn because at the end of the day we are each responsible for our actions.



Risk assessment involves contingencies. If Davey Jones comes a calling one wants to have contingencies. There are some contingencies that one can not really plan for when traveling. For instance, a major earthquake that shuts down a region. And I believe that is really the issue here. I will say one could not plan for the travel restrictions to be put into place so quickly. But on the other hand it was not a matter of if, but when the virus was going hit.

Here would be my analogy, it has been raining hard for weeks and one travels across a tenuous bridge that is the sole route in and out. The bridge has always been reasonably reliable but an extra ordinary amount of rain falls way up stream, comes down, and it gives way. One is now stuck. Who is responsible when one are in no immediate danger only inconvenienced? Should the county build a replacement immediately (airline in your case), should the national guard airlift one out (US Government in your case). Who is responsible? At the end of the day, one made the decision to travel down the road, no one forced them.

I can understand the Embassy not having good information as it was a rapidly changing situation, and I do find it odd that they sent a plane to pickup a sport ball team (connections perhaps??). Not sure what to think that some airlines would travel but others not. I would like to hear their reasoning before saying more.

Finally, when one is in the public eye whether by choice or not, one gets judged. Like it or not! Not always easy and why I greatly appreciate you chiming in.

I don't find your analogy as apples to apples.

 

[Sue J]

The women's team, the Women’s AFE Team USA All-Stars was representing the US in the Americas Women’s Bowl, an international tackle football tournament.

"On Friday, a US Air Force C-17 flew about half of the [55 member] team out of Honduras' Soto Cano Air Base to the US, according to a statement from US Southern Command.
Later that day, a US Air Force C-130 transported 89 US citizens, including the remaining members of the team -- as well as other US citizens who were stuck in Honduras -- to Joint Base Charleston in South Carolina."
US military airlifts US women's football team, American citizens stranded in Honduras amid coronavirus - CNNPolitics

 

[Doc]

The women's team, the Women’s AFE Team USA All-Stars was representing the US in the Americas Women’s Bowl, an international tackle football tournament.....

And, as I had mentioned earlier in this thread, as a result of their special affiliation and classification, they as an entity enjoy certain US government protections and services.

They are treated essentially a “US Olympic Team”, but in a non-Olympic year or not during the actual Games....through a prior a Congressional Act. Even for a “demo sport”, all the same.

This came about after the Israelis learned a few lessons in Munich.

The current administration has certainly dropped the ball in multiple ways but there are others who are really trying and in some cases fighting against the current administration. That said, we should leave that out of the conversation.

How kind for you to have handled that task for us. And disingenuous. All in one paragraph.

 

[Centrals]

Was quite obvious to Taiwan and it had already implemented procedures for the pandemic and warned other countries and the W.H.O. Of course the head of the WHO who is known to have "embellished his resume" lied about his terrorist links and is a known puppet of China came out and lied to the world about non Human to Human transmission when Taiwan already warned that was happening. China knew it was lying when it had to WHO make that statement.

So to say it was not obvious is wrong. Most countries stupidly believed China and the their puppet WHO instead of acting. Taiwan knew better from how China lied in 2003 about Sars and was lying again in 2019 when they started jailing medical professionals who were warning about the new SARS like virus in December 2019.

Video: Top WHO doctor Bruce Aylward pretends not to hear journalist's Taiwan questions, ends video call | Hong Kong Free Press HKFP

Kick WHO to touch!

 

[Blackcrusader]

Video: Top WHO doctor Bruce Aylward pretends not to hear journalist's Taiwan questions, ends video call | Hong Kong Free Press HKFP

Kick WHO to touch!

Should also deport this couple asap. They filed a false news report on being in "prison like conditions" to the BBC. Woke BBC ran it without checking their claims then days later deleted it from their website. They come to Taiwan on tourist visa on arrival, claim they have no money, were put up in hotel with magnificent views costing less than US$9 a day, then made a false story about their "imprisonment in quarantine"

Not only that the government here is giving everyone to has to isolate NT$1000 a day for 14 days, so around US$33 a day each. Now this couple just cost themselves that money. The ingratitude of these people is unbelievable.

BBC deletes report accusing Taiwan quarantine... | Taiwan News

British woman in E. Taiwan apologizes over BB... | Taiwan News

Taiwan not granting subsidies to British woma... | Taiwan News

 

[Centrals]

YES, Republic of China Gov should fine them heavily, kick them out asap and bar them from ever returning to the Island Nation.

 

[dumpsterpurrs]

Hm so judging based on how things looked in Viet Nam, it would be extremely irresponsible to travel internationally from the 2nd week of March and downright stupid from mid March. Traveling in Feb was scary and people already started taking high precautions.

My girlfriend had to travel a lot around that time:
- 1st week of Feb: domestic, already very stressful, people wore masks on plane
- 2nd week of Feb: to Manila, I was very nervous about this trip, only okayed the trip bc she was gonna stay the whole time in one building there
- last week of Feb: she was asked to go to Jakarta for an assignment on March 3. We were both very uncomfortable with this and were debating whether it was safe and responsible for her to go. Within 12 hours, her employer canceled the trip bc of COVID 19.
- 1st~2nd week of March: her employer grounded ALL international travel of their entire Southeast Asian network, esp to epicenters of Europe and the US.

It is not just personally dangerous to travel during a pandemic; it is also socially irresponsible. Where we come from, our healthcare systems are very fragile and we must stay vigilant to protect it. I have a lot of resentment for pandemic-time travelers from Global Northern countries endangering and burdening out healthcare system just because they want cheap vodka on the beach. The majority of cases in Viet Nam has been imported or related to the expats community here.

 

[Blackcrusader]

I flew to Australia from Taipei to HK to Sydney with Cathay on 05 Feb. On arrival in HK on 05 Feb Cathay Pacific were already checking who was allowed to board the flight from HK that night to Sydney as changes for those arriving from 06 Feb.
Then Taiwan announced that all those transiting HK would have to do a mandatory 14 day quarantine from 10 February cand Cathay had actually started cancelling services to Taiwan from HK. I changed my flight in Australia to a direct flight to Taipei with Taiwan's China Airlines. Cathay refunded my 50% of my ticket within 14 days. Pretty decent of them. China Airlines I bought a cheap one way ticket and the flight was fairly full but all the middle row seats were empty in the area I was in.

After I returned to Taiwan 25 February I then started to arrange cancelling other trips. A UK friend also aborted his trip with me to Bali he was due to arrive Taiwan 18 March but from 19 March 12 am no non residents would be allowed entry and even if he came mandatory 14 day Quarantine from anyone coming from the UK or through Dubai and his flight through Dubai was actually cancelled by Emirates Airlines anyway.

Even from mid February most travel was iffy as the situation was changing day to day. Yet people were still trying to fly to Asian holiday destinations from Europe even though they were being warned not to travel. Many of the foreigners arriving in Taiwan before 18 March have actually had the virus and been quarantined in Taiwan as have many Taiwanese who were returning from UK Spain Italy USA and other countries.

Taiwan has been really good at covering this and we do not have a lock down nor serious outbreaks as nearly all of the cases are from citizens who traveled abroad or foreigners who came in and infected the people they were visiting here.

I have a client in Europe who thinks I can travel there in July to meet them and I am saying it's a no go. Philippines just extended lock downs to end of April. Any country may change anything at anytime. Pakistan is trying to track down 100,000 people who attended an Islamic event they wanted cancelled in March as many have the virus and they simply can't track many of those people who were from Malaysia Indonesia and other countries. Who knows what the real numbers are going to be in many Asian countries. Japan just went to state of emergency in many areas.

 

[Centrals]

According to HK SAR Gov there are about 1000 Hong Kongers aboard seeking help!!!!!
Travel warning was issued long time ago but plenty of them simply ignoring it! Whose fault is it?
HK tourist dies in Peru

Five out of 65 Hongkongers returning from Peru test positive for coronavirus | Hong Kong Free Press HKFP

 

[KatieMac]

Whose fault is it?

It says some left Feb 27. Maybe the WHO is to blame because they were downplaying the impact. They didn't declare a WW pandemic until declaring a pandemic on March 11th.