Deaths at Eagles Nest - Homosassa FL

[flots am]

News reports and that of friends/relatives are not always factual. Case in point the assertion by the fiancee that safety was of utmost importance.

If that was the equipment, safety wasn't all that important, regardless of what anybody told her.

The back gas looks like double 98's and one "deco" tank looks like an 80, and the other I'm not sure. Maybe another 98. I believe someone mentioned that the deco gas was left at a staging location, and wasn't carried.

If the tanks were full, each diver had about 196 cubic feet of back gas.

A 210' dive (I believe I saw that figure) for 20 minutes, requires about 203 CuFt of gas, which is more than 10 CuFt more than they were carrying, since you can't breathe the tank down to "zero".

It leaves nothing available for emergencies or failures, making any lost-gas or "used too much gas" problems 100% fatal to both divers.

flots

 

[grey2112]

I'm certain they were doing it for some time. That does not look like someone who is uncomfortable diving in that setup. Most people wouldn't think for a second that there was any issue with experience or that both of them were way over their heads (no pun intended).
Although my question is, and it doesn't just apply to this situation, but to diving in general... If you see a potential problem, whether it is a diver ill-equipped or through idle chit chat you discover an uncertified diver, of course you are free to intervene and in this case you would most likely be told to go chase yourself six ways from Sunday, what recourse do you have? I don't see any way of physically stopping them from entering the water, or even stopping them from doing it again in the future.

None - you simply have to shrug your shoulders, shake your head, and if later you read of the tragic end-result of stupidity, you can at least rest easy knowing that you tried to help. Unfortunately, in this day and age, Darwin wins most of the time.

I've learned to live by a set of rules - I have about 10 of them, but the two most important rules, which happen to be #1 and #2, are:

1 - People are stupid

2 - People are lazy

Granted, doesn't apply to some, but does apply to MANY - chances are you can answer just about any question regarding people's motives or thoughts by applying these two simple rules.

 

[TONY CHANEY]

Or, because no one but full cave divers should be in the system and with there being only one way in/out along the gold line, there isn't a need for a reel to tie into the gold line.

Several answers: 1) some divers attach their reels to a butt D-ring, 2) some put them in their pocket, 3) sometimes you can't see them on the left hip D-ring or they simply did not bring them. The picture in question, although I have not been there, does not seem to be at Eagle's Nest.

Now for the rest of the story. Reels are not for just to use to tie into the gold line! We use them for a lost line search, lost buddy search, shoot lift bags (not in the cave), tie into the gold line for a jump, tie into the the gold line to search a new area of the cave, mearsure, etc.

I hope that this helps.

 

[Jack Hammer]

Not that it matters but it looks to me like the father has a small reel or spool with orange line attached to his right chest D ring, underneath the cookie. I see can lights on both but dont notice any backup lights or bolt snaps for them on either.

Sent from my GT-P6210 using Tapatalk 2

 

[ScubaInChicago]

Several answers: 1) some divers attach their reels to a butt D-ring, 2) some put them in their pocket, 3) sometimes you can't see them on the left hip D-ring or they simply did not bring them. The picture in question, although I have not been there, does not seem to be at Eagle's Nest.

Now for the rest of the story. Reels are not for just to use to tie into the gold line! We use them for a lost line search, lost buddy search, shoot lift bags (not in the cave), tie into the gold line for a jump, tie into the the gold line to search a new area of the cave, mearsure, etc.

I hope that this helps.

Sorry if you read spool and reel interchangeably....I'll stick with my original answer.

 

[TONY CHANEY]

Sorry if you read spool and reel interchangeably....I'll stick with my original answer.

And you would be wrong. And you can read reel or spool in that they are interchanged. Pg. 43 para. 1 of of the NCAD Cavern / Cave Diver workbook. "The decision to use one over the other is one of personal choice based on the individual diver's comfort and familiarity." Also, Pg. 43 para. 5 of of the NCAD Cavern / Cave Diver workbook it states, "Each dive team is required to have one primary reel." With the teams I dive with we all carry one primary and one or more spools. Now, since we do not know each other, and I care to know your background and knowledge pertaining to the situation, are you a certified full cave diver?

 

[Dive-aholic]

where, who, what can I do to help?

Anyone who is interested can email me at TD@nationalassociationforcavediving.org. We have a team of cave divers working on this and plan on hitting it with full force after the holidays.

---------- Post added December 29th, 2013 at 10:23 PM ----------

Or, because no one but full cave divers should be in the system and with there being only one way in/out along the gold line, there isn't a need for a reel to tie into the gold line.

This is incorrect. The NACD, as well as other agencies, mandate that a continuous guideline to open water be maintained during all cave dives. This means a primary reel must be established in open water and run into the cavern, eventually being tied into the gold line. Just because there's only one way in/out does not mean that someone can make it safely out should there be a zero visibility silt out. This has been the cause of several deaths in caves and the reason the 2nd most common cause of death in a cave has been lack of a continuous guideline and why that is on of the guidelines of accident analysis.

Rob Neto
International Training Director
National Association for Cave Diving


For anyone who hasn't seen it - http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/na...dvisory-cave-diving-guidelines-revisited.html

 

[ScubaInChicago]

....This is incorrect. The NACD, as well as other agencies, mandate that a continuous guideline to open water be maintained during all cave dives. This means a primary reel must be established in open water and run into the cavern, eventually being tied into the gold line. Just because there's only one way in/out does not mean that someone can make it safely out should there be a zero visibility silt out. This has been the cause of several deaths in caves and the reason the 2nd most common cause of death in a cave has been lack of a continuous guideline and why that is on of the guidelines of accident analysis.

Rob Neto
International Training Director
National Association for Cave Diving


For anyone who hasn't seen it - http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/na...dvisory-cave-diving-guidelines-revisited.html

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the gold line extended out into open water at the deco log which is outside the cavern/cave of Eagles Nest Sink.

---------- Post added December 29th, 2013 at 11:02

 

[TSandM]

You know, I don't feel that bad about taking "new equipment" into the cave. Maybe it was a new computer (and using the old one as a backup). Maybe it was new fins. Maybe it was a new backup light. Maybe it was a new set of doubles, or a new wing. Not all "new equipment" puts a dive at significant risk. This is being misinterpreted just as the fact that their friend had lent equipment has been misinterpreted to mean that they had that equipment on THIS dive.

There are enough mistakes and enough issues surrounding this dive that I don't think we have to go fishing for more.

 

[PfcAJ]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the gold line extended out into open water at the deco log which is outside the cavern/cave of Eagles Nest Sink.

---------- Post added December 29th, 2013 at 11:02

It does. But I think the pic is question was taken at little river. Different cave.