Comparative Debate on AAS Configuration Options

[TSandM]

Pros for pony bottles:

1. Offers the diver himself true redundancy.
2. Can be rigged so that the bottle can be passed off, thus reverting the two divers to independent entities. (This requires that the recipient have a way to secure the tank, which he may not, and be calm and rational enough to do it, which he may not be.)
3. If properly configured, may offer equally good options for primary donation or secondary donation.

Cons:

1. Most expensive described option.
2. Backmounted ponies can be difficult for new divers to balance, or for soft BCs to stabilize.
3. Poor configuration choices can render it difficult to deal with failures.
4. Additional first stage adds failure points (I personally don't think this is a big deal.)

 

[DaleC]

I assume the inline octo would/should be configured with a longer hose for primary donation. A shorter primary would be a definate drawback.
This is actually something I have had to battle with internally several times regarding my BM independant twins setup. I would dearly love to configure it with two shorter hoses, coming from the left and the right, with the left being bungied and the right being clipped off on the right chest D ring (when not in use). This would be great for solo diving but I can never justify the lack of donation potential should I ever come across another diver, so I go with a short hose/longhose combo ala hogarthian rigging.
I think an inline octo user faces the same configuration dillemna (well not really a dillemna I suppose, more like ethical choice).

 

[DevonDiver]

I'm a little curious about something. You listed as a "Con" on the AIR II set-up the following:

"Requires extended length primary hose, which may not be routed in a streamlined, entanglement aware manner"

A longer hose, not a 'long' hose. i.e. the primary might be rigged with an AAS length hose. Very much a generalization, not a rule.

I can see already from this thread that some divers do use a 'long' hose with an AIRII... which makes my 'con' irrelevant (for those divers).

I do wonder at what consideration the 'average' AIRII user puts into selection and use of a primary reg hose though...?

So how is this a "CON" for this set-up and not a "Con" for the "Long Hose Primary Donation"? Couldn't you just as easily say the same for both?

Yes, you could. However, it is my assumption that a diver using a 5' or 7' would necessarily have to conduct some research on effective stowage solutions. A diver with a shorter hose than those, might not consider stowage/routing options. Again...very much a generalization based on my perception of how a cross-section of the diving community approach their kit configurations (or neglect any thought of configuration).

But if you simply clip it to the BC wouldn't that take care of these?

Yes, it would. I've never actually seen an AIRII user do that. I assume some must do... in which case an interesting configuration topic has arisen.

I have an AIR II and mine maybe hangs down a couple of inches from the BC at most. You'd have to be crawling on the bottom for it to fill with sand. I fully admit that the AIR II in some diving situations may not be ideal like cave diving but if you are going to list something as a "Con", make it a real life diving situation and not something that has an easy fix to it.

I think the sand issue would apply to OW students (fin pivots), underwater photographers and general 'critter watchers' (we have more macro critters over here in Asia, I guess.. more time in the sand with a magnifying glass).

Entanglment/dangling would apply to any diver in an overhead environment, or a diving location that posed specific entanglement hazards (monofilament, kelp etc).

Again, a few inches of 'dangle' isn't earth shattering... I was just trying to list as many pros and cons as I could imagine - so that they could be discussed.

Another possible "Pro" that I have seen listed in other threads for the AIR II is that because you are likely to use your inflator during the dive, you instinctively know right where it is, and because of that "memory effect" you will be able to quickly reach for it without fumbling around trying to find your octo. So if that is indeed a "pro" for the AIR II, would it then be a 'Con" for the std. rig to have to fumble around trying to find your octo?

Yes. I agree. That's a valid point. It is certainly a 'pro' compared to standard AAS which is often found dangling and forgotten 'somewhere' in the vicinity of the users torso. With regards to a necklaced AAS, I tend to find that its location makes it very intuitive to secure. That may not be true for all divers though... it's hard to differentiate what bias my own skill and experience has on that 'intuitiveness'.

 

[cloudflint]

I find having my octopus running under my left arm and secured to my right hip works fine for me. I don't intend to go into any enclosed spaces so this isnt a concern and my octo hose is long enough that i can comfortably have a diver next to me on it without us being uncomfortably restricted.

I find this config is good for the cold water i frequently dive in, my primary remains dry and i only end up with one 2nd stage free-flowing instead of two. I have had my octo come off its holder before but I now have a much better holder and am in the habit of frequently patting my octo to make sure it is still there. Also god help you if you try to yank my twin hose out my mouth and breathe from it

 

[colbar]

My rig is Air 11 and a 5ft primary hose. Having been in a situation with an airless and stressed buddy, the 5' hose gives a degree of separation between divers - I had my mask knocked off on that occasion. So when diving with a new buddy, I advise that he/she will get the primary (yellow) hose, and I will breathe off the Air 11.

I also ascend on all my dives using the Air 11. I doubt that many divers do this but it provides me with the confidence that the kit will work when needed.

 

[Rascally Rabbit]

Hmmm, I didn't see a choice for AirII AAS long hose primary donor. There seems to be a growing trend for the AirII with the advantage of a 5 or 7 foot hose.

 

[Diver0001]

Hmmm, I didn't see a choice for AirII AAS long hose primary donor. There seems to be a growing trend for the AirII with the advantage of a 5 or 7 foot hose.

I haven't used an Air II since shortly after humans discovered how to make fire but from what I can remember of the one I had, the cracking pressure was so high that breathing from it was like trying to jump-start a car by sucking on the muffler.... and when it DID open it breathed positive.... It was most peculiar to use it.

Are they still that bad? If so I would add "performance sucks" to the list of cons.

Personally, I think the biggest "con" of the long hose is that people get all excited about them because they hear people they respect talking about it on the internet and then they start to use them without any training (and/or thinking).

Most students in an OW course are taught that the OOA diver is responsible for "acquiring" an air supply in an OOA situation and most people who actually recieved training on using the long-hose were taught that the OOA diver is "given" the reg.

It's a subtle difference, maybe but it can lead to mixed signals and mixed signals in an OOA situation can result in accidents. From what I've seen people sometimes "dress the part" without really knowing what they're doing and never even think about this, let alone practice with it.

... so I would add "unfamiliarity with proper AAS protocol and/or zero formal training" to the "long hose" section, because it *does* apply to about 80% of people who use it.

And finally, my main objection to the traditional octopus is that it needs to be attached in such a way that it will come free when needed and remain in place when stowed. In my experience the octpus gets dislodged from it's "holder" altogether too often and often without being noticed by the diver. This can lead to a number of things happening, the most dangerous of all being that the OOA diver may not be able to *locate* the bloody thing when they need it. And since we no longer teach buddy breathing I belive the octopus should be *guaranteed* to be where it should be when it is needed.... and due to it's very design the traditional kit just doesn't and can't allow for that. For this reason I believe the entire industry should be re-kitting to go with the long-hose and fixed alternate (air II or bungee backup).

R..

 

[Splitlip]

A plus for Air II, if not mentioned yet, if a diver is mugged for his primary he does not have to search very far for his alternate which might or might not still be secured by the octo holder in his golden triangle.

 

[Kern]

All my gear and configurations are different and all over the place
The closest to standardisation is a secondary clipped to a shoulder D ring
I build and configure all my gear
All my gear works
It never sees the inside of a shop that works on these things
I use long hoses on primarys and secondarys
I attempt to be aware of potential problems with other divers regarding OOA
I have never been OOA unless there is a reasonable situation to be OOA in
I will NEVER donate my primary
Drills are drills
My configuration and attitude changes depending on the dive and divers.
Any of the above may change due to forseen or unforseen circumstances

I WILL NEVER EVER DONATE MY PRIMARY.

Unless a primary is all I have?

OMG one, ya gona die!!! :mooner:

 

[knowone]

Pretty bloody simply by myself. "Aye"

Thouh thers plenti o cred putin that that I writ in the middl o a book?

"Hey?"


Good to hear ya.