Cold hands

[ChrisMBC]

shrugs the neoprene bubbles are at 1ata inside. They collapse and are progressively less warm at depth.

Loft is the cure all. The only other thing that can "make" your hands warm is having the rest of your core so damn hot with active heating that your body is pumping crazy hot blood out to your extremities in an effort to get rid of it. Your thinly insulated hands will still be warm in that scenario

To be clear, what I'm saying:

- Neoprene glove liners, inside your dryglove, equalized with suit pressure as you descend, will compress and lose some of their insulative properties as you descend.

- Merino/fleece/Primaloft drygloves, equalized with suit pressure and given sufficient room to expand, will not compress and lose insulative value as you descend.

Are we all on the same page? Or is there a hypothesis that 'lofted' glove liners (merino/fleece/whatever) will compress as ambient pressure increases?

 

[Zef]

To be clear, what I'm saying:

- Neoprene glove liners, inside your dryglove, equalized with suit pressure as you descend, will compress and lose some of their insulative properties as you descend.

- Merino/fleece/Primaloft drygloves, equalized with suit pressure and given sufficient room to expand, will not compress and lose insulative value as you descend.

Are we all on the same page? Or is there a hypothesis that 'lofted' glove liners (merino/fleece/whatever) will compress as ambient pressure increases?

Why would a neoprene glove liner compress and lose some of their insulative value inside an equalized dryglove as one descends?

Why would a lofted glove liner not compress under the same condition, an unequalize dryglove?

If the dryglove is equalized the neoprene glove liner will not be compressed and maintain its insulative properties, because it is in an equalized environment within the dryglove.

If the dryglove is not equalized, then a lofted glove liner will compress, losing its insulative property, as the loft will that holds the insulating air will be compressed as the unequalized glove squeezes around the hand.

Are you saying otherwise?

-Z

 

[inquis]

Why would a neoprene glove liner compress and lose some of their insulative value inside an equalized dryglove as one descends?

Because the air used to equalize cannot penetrate the neoprene material.

Why would a lofted glove liner not compress under the same condition?

Because the air used to equalize can penetrate the wool/polyester/fabric material.

 

[grantmac]

With dry gloves, are they not equalized with suit and therefore lofted? 'Have not learned to dive dry yet, so 'beg understanding.

Yes and no. Gloves are generally the lowest point in the suit so tend to have the most compression. I find without any seals is actually worse for this reason.

 

[Zef]

Because the air used to equalize cannot penetrate the neoprene material.

Because the air used to equalize can penetrate the wool/polyester/fabric material.

The air does not need to penetrate the neoprene in an equalized glove....the closed cells of the neoprene provide its insulative property...it will maintain this insulative capacity as long as it is not compressed, which is the point of equalizing the dryglove.


I edited my second question above to be more clear:

If the dryglove is not equalized then a lofted glove liner will compress as the dryglove squeezes and it will lose its insulative value the same way a neoprene glove would. If the dryglove is equalized then the lofted glove liner will continue to provide insulative value the same as a neoprene glove liner would.

-Z

 

[iliketopetsharks]

the closed cells of the neoprene provide its insulative property

Yeah, but the gas bubbles in the neoprene get compressed and lose insulation.

 

[Barryattle]

I think I've commented on this before on SB as a doc who dives and has significant Raynaud's (circulation to fingers and toes just clamps down and they turn white/numb):

1) insulate well, especially core. In the PNW, I am often dripping sweat off my face in the summer until I get into the water. If your core is cold, the periphery clamps down to preserve body heat, as others have noted. And I use thick merino/polypro insulating gloves inside my dry glove - a huge improvement over the crappy yellow things that came with my dry gloves, even when I had added thin liner gloves inside those. Yes, my dexterity is not great, but it's worse with useless, numb fingers.

2) if you have Raynaud's, ask your doc for a prescription for a dihydropyridine calcium channel blocker (blood pressure meds. whose name ends in -dipine, such as amlodipine, nifedipine, felodipine) - blocks the vasospasm that just shuts off circulation. A total game-changer for me and others to whom I have recommended this. Take it a few hours before diving to give it time to get into your body. There are very few contraindications to taking them. I expect my blood pressure is a bit lower on the days I dive (or ski) because of that, but it has never been an issue.

 

[inquis]

If the dryglove is not equalized then a lofted glove liner will compress as the dryglove squeezes and it will lose its insulative value

Yes, as the fibers are being squashed by the dry glove. No insulating airspace.

the same way a neoprene glove would.

Yes, because the dry glove presses on the outer surface of the neoprene, squashing the internal bubbles. No insulating airspace.

If the dryglove is equalized then the lofted glove liner will continue to provide insulative value

Yes, since the air penetrates the material and everything pushes back on the dry glove (i.e., equalized). Plenty of insulative airspace.

the same as a neoprene glove liner would.

No, because the air inside the equalized dry glove equals the ambient water pressure. It tries to push through the outer surface of the neoprene, but it cannot. The outer neoprene surface squashes the internal bubbles. No insulating airspace.

 

[grantmac]

I'm wondering if the lack of air movement through the neoprene might still add warmth even with them compressed.
1.5mm gloves are very cheap on Amazon and if they don't work a free return.

 

[grantmac]

Another thought I've had is whether anyone has tried neoprene wrist seals with si tech rings? I know you can install neoprene seals in their neck systems now?

I'm likely going for offboard heat in the next while and will experiment with thin neoprene gloves