Question Building a cold water undersuit/undergarment system.

[berndo]

Isn’t that the whole idea of third party?

Yeah, but who is going to pay for that? The manufacturers won't as it's a lose-lose unless you have the best product in the market.

 

[Bald Wookie]

Yeah, but who is going to pay for that? The manufacturers won't as it's a lose-lose unless you have the best product in the market.

Like I said, pipe dream

I would love to do it as a side project at some point

 

[Erik H]

I've read of people using Weezle or Kwark undersuits and generally being quite satisfied with them. My only concern with them is their compressibility as they look to be filled with a down-like filling (I know it isn't down but you get what I mean). It seems that Thinsulate undersuits like Santi BZ400, BZ200 and their heated versions don't last long as the Thinsulate compresses and looses its' warmth after much use. I'm interested in a layering system of FE undergarments as they seem to be made of incompressible fabrics.

Anyone have suggestions on Made-to-Measure crushed neoprene drysuits? SF-Tech and Seaskin have been been mentioned already. I have a better idea of what Trilaminate options there are as I was originally more interested in them but have less knowledge of the Neoprene market. The reason why I mentioned "Cave-cut" in my original post is that I am concerned about suits that are too loose allowing for more airspace and easier unwanted migration of air throughout the suit. I feel that a more fitted suit will help me control the airspace, placement of air and amount of air needed for insulation and against squeeze.

 

[BoundForElsewhere]

Might I suggest...

 

[jborg]

There's a lot of love for neoprene dry suits in this thread. It's a bit surprising to me because I've yet to see one in real life here in Sweden, and I've probably met a hundred different dry-suit divers here. A dive guide in the Red Sea had one, which makes sense as he didn't need to wear anything thick under it, and the water never gets very cold there...

 

[berndo]

Kwark is just fleece. They're not filled with anything. Weelze is like a sleeping bag or puffy jacket.

About the 'cave cut'. IMHO it's just marketing babble. A suit either fits you properly or it doesn't.

Just go to some dive shops in your area. For your first suit it's better when you have someone helping you to find the right size rather than buying on the internet.

 

[berndo]

There's a lot of love for neoprene dry suits in this thread. It's a bit surprising to me because I've yet to see one in real life here in Sweden, and I've probably met a hundred different dry-suit divers here.

I think it's because many people these day get their information online and online is pretty much dominated by DIR/GUE people that never even used a crush neo but their philosophy tells them neos suck.
When you go and look what the guys wear that do long cave dives in places like france you see a lot of crush neos.

 

[lexvil]

A lot of good info in this thread and it really points out how much opinion varies. The best bet is starting with a good base layer, I prefer heavy wool, then build layers with whatever you like, be open minded about what works best, try different stuff if you get the chance because what you think is warm today will work but don’t lock in “forever” with one type.

neoprene IS warmer, crushed for no buoyancy shift, compressed for slight shift or uncompressed for the most warmth at the shallower end of the depths but as Berndo points out (perhaps others too) as you go deeper you will loose the suit insulation so the undergarments will have the load, if you have the right undergarment you’ll stay warm but you’ll have a lot of lead on you to get off of the surface.

 

[berndo]

neoprene IS warmer, crushed for no buoyancy shift, compressed for slight shift or uncompressed for the most warmth at the shallower end of the depths but as Berndo points out (perhaps others too) as you go deeper you will loose the suit insulation so the undergarments will have the load, if you have the right undergarment you’ll stay warm but you’ll have a lot of lead on you to get off of the surface.

I did not say that.
It's just not true, crush neos don't lose their insulation.

As I said, +30 years ago, neo drysuits were made from normal thick neopren that would compress like a normal wetsuit. Those sucked for the reason you mentioned. The whole point of crushed neo is so that the suit doesn't compress much further and doesn't lose insulation.

 

[lexvil]

I did not say that.
It's just not true, crush neos don't lose their insulation.

As I said, +30 years ago, neo drysuits were made from normal thick neopren that would compress like a normal wetsuit. Those sucked for the reason you mentioned. The whole point of crushed neo is so that the suit doesn't compress much further and doesn't lose insulation.

I believe we said the same thing, my point is in R value all neoprene resists heat transfer better than trilam.

I use both compressed neo and trilam and would only use neoprene if there was a decently priced front zip available.