Question Building a cold water undersuit/undergarment system.

[rjack321]

That's interesting. I've never seen a Weezle in person but from the videos it looks like it has the same type of material on the outside that all the other thinsalate type undergarments use. I would think the Halo would be be more durable? The Weezle (I would think) would be much easier to get into a suit.

I have a Halo 3D and think it's pretty robust and fairly warm. Easy to reach valves. About the only thing that has gotten cold while wearing it are my hands and my arms a little (but that was in 38F for ~ 70 min just very slowly going along). It seems that the arms have less material than my 4E Arctics, I have no idea why.

It's not hard to get into the suit, but it doesn't glide like other one pieces I've tried.

The outside of a weezle is a nylon shell, the liner is like a long underwear weight wicking layer. Between is basically a synthetic sleeping bag type of insulation which is much more mouldable to your body than thinsulate. Most of the Canadian's I dive with also use the weezles. They last a shockingly long time, I have one from 2006 I am still diving.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

The outside of a weezle is a nylon shell, the liner is like a long underwear weight wicking layer. Between is basically a synthetic sleeping bag type of insulation which is much more mouldable to your body than thinsulate. Most of the Canadian's I dive with also use the weezles. They last a shockingly long time, I have one from 2006 I am still diving.

So in your experience you would say Weezle+ is warmer than Halo, but isn't as dense so needs more loft? Care to describe how much warmer? Like if Weezle is a "10" what would the Halo be?

Damn it... now I want to try a Weezle+

 

[rjack321]

So in your experience you would say Weezle+ is warmer than Halo, but isn't as dense so needs more loft? Care to describe how much warmer? Like if Weezle is a "10" what would the Halo be?

Damn it... now I want to try a Weezle+

The weezles do take more lead, that's just how insulation works. There is no magical "thin but crazy warm" material. Ditto with a shell vs a crushed neo suit. The crushed neo is going to take an extra 1-1.5kg to sink.

I'd say if the extreme+ is a 10 the halo is closer to an 8. Given the same suit on the outside.

 

[bobmaggi]

I dive in Lake Michigan/Huron/Superior where the temperatures are around 42ºF (below the thermocline) during the summer and 38º during the winter. When I was younger, the 4th Element undergarments with a thin base layer was great for year round. Then as I got older I started noticing the cold was affecting my hands and then feet. So I added a heated vest (Light Monkey) with heated glove liners and during the winter, heated socks. This combination has sufficed to keep the hands from getting too cold. The bulk of the external battery can be a pain at times but being comfortable for the entire dive is priceless. The last dive I did was in 35ºF water for 45 minutes. My left little finger was so cold I couldn’t bend it and the right thumb was on its way to the same condition. Found out the heating elements in those 2 fingers had broken. The rest of the fingers were cool but still comfortable. New glove liners were ordered that night!
For someone new to drysuit diving I would recommend getting a good fitting drysuit, then don’t scrimp on the undergarments! Find out what your cold tolerance is before investing in a heating system, then you can make a much better decision on how to proceed.

 

[berndo]

... is due to their flexibility and versatility of use in different temperatures and environments.

What flexibility and versatility?
I've used a crush neo in 20° C plus too, it's fine. Only real downside as already mentioned it that they pack bigger and the high end ones like the SF techs are more pricey. Made to measure seaskin is under 1 grand sf is more like 4 grand and up.
BTW: When you dive the baltic sea in Sweden you're not ever going to have any warm water. The 22° C you mentioned are only in the first couple of meters. Even in summer you're going to need warm undergarment, unless you dive very shallow.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

The weezles do take more lead, that's just how insulation works. There is no magical "thin but crazy warm" material. Ditto with a shell vs a crushed neo suit. The crushed neo is going to take an extra 1-1.5kg to sink.

I'd say if the extreme+ is a 10 the halo is closer to an 8. Given the same suit on the outside.

Have you had a chance to try the new Halo AR? From what I understand it is as thin as the 4E Arctics but just as warm as the 3D. I have not seen it in person, but to me it looks fairly thin in the videos.

Magical... maybe not, but looks kind of space age and reads as such on paper.

I also didn't realize you could get a Weezle+ for fairly inexpensive. $300 shipped to my front door isn't all that bad.

 

[berndo]

From what I understand it is as thin as the 4E Arctics but just as warm as the 3D. I have not seen it in person, but to me it looks fairly thin in the videos.

If seen these claims made by other comapies before. I don't believe it. As rjack said, thin and warm isn't really a thing. You need to trap air and the thin stuff doesn't traps less.
What you can do to make thinner undergarment warmer is to buy a piece of thick fleece and cut it out in the shape of a vest, but just the front side, like an oversized bib and stick it under your undergarment. That's what I do when I want extra insulation. Makes a huge difference.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

If seen these claims made by other comapies before. I don't believe it. As rjack said, thin and warm isn't really a thing. You need to trap air and the thin stuff doesn't traps less.
What you can do to make thinner undergarment warmer is to buy a piece of thick fleece and cut it out in the shape of a vest, but just the front side, like an oversized bib and stick it under your undergarment. That's what I do when I want extra insulation. Makes a huge difference.

I was very skeptical. I got 1st hand account from someone who's been diving one for a while who came from diving a Halo 3D. He said it's jsut as warm, 1/2 the thickness.

It's a moot point for me... too much money for an undergarment @ $600 or whatever.

 

[berndo]

I was very skeptical. I got 1st hand account from someone who's been diving one for a while who came from diving a Halo 3D. He said it's jsut as warm, 1/2 the thickness.

The issue with these comparisons is that thinsulate unfortunately loses it's insulating properties very fast. So an older bz400 type suit is going be colder than a new thinner suit because the thinsulate clumps up really fast. I don't know what the Halo is made from but age of the undergarment can be a big factor.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

The issue with these comparisons is that thinsulate unfortunately loses it's insulating properties very fast. So an older bz400 type suit is going be colder than a new thinner suit because the thinsulate clumps up really fast. I don't know what the Halo is made from but age of the undergarment can be a big factor.

Understood, but 4E is not made of thinsulate. It's a very dense thick material. Does not compress like thinsulate at all.

I would think it would hold up better over time, but I'm really not an expert. My Arctics feel just as warm after ~ 80 dives as they did new.

And I don't want to sound like I'm an hung up on 4E, I do like their stuff but if someone came along with better I'd jump ship.