Cave Training and Etiquette Real or Imaginary?

[Omisson]

Every person who takes cavern or cave from me reads this notice from my powerpoint presentation:

View attachment 205388

And follows it....

 

[victorzamora]

Haha, you'd hope so!

 

[GDI]

Ok for those who are not instructors. What skills do you feel you may not have been worked on enough during your cave training?

For Instructors what Skills do you think need improvement from a teaching point of view and what skills do you see lacking in many students?

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

Haha, you'd hope so!

You can bet on it...

 

[Pavao]

Ok for those who are not instructors. What skills do you feel you may not have been worked on enough during your cave training?

Ok as stated I said I would provide some pic of tie offs. Funny thing is as I was taking these pic I was asked if I could do these while underwater? Ah Yes Of course I can and always with a tension Spring (TS) was my response:
Tying into a caveline as if on a jump, tying onto the goldline, a simple placement, a primary straight wrap (not my preference), primary with TS (x 2 views), a secondary tie off, a single wrap

It doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't taught to me during class, but I don't think I know/remember how to do a primary tie off with TS, picture 4 is what I use, 5 and 6 I'm not sure I know how, could you please give a brief explanation how it's done.
Everything else is exactly what I was taught/remember/do

Thank you

---------- Post added March 27th, 2015 at 12:05 AM ----------

Ok for those who are not instructors. What skills do you feel you may not have been worked on enough during your cave training?

I also wanna add, not exactly what you're asking, but is relevant to the discussion on this thread, what was not worked on during my cave class was, 0 time spent on buoyancy, 0 time spent on trim, 0 time spent on propulsion, 0 time spent on awareness, absolutely not a single second on those
That's because I had taken a GUE fundies class before I decided I would take up cave diving, I signed up to learn cave diving, not diving. Because of that, the instructor could focus all the class time teaching me about specifics of cave diving.

The benefits of such an introductory class that forms the foundation for any future class is invaluable, master these fundamental skills first and any subsequent training you take will be so much easier to learn/focus on the specifics of the class, for both student and instructor.

 

[TSandM]

I agree. I took Cavern and Intro before I took GUE C1. I had done Fundies with a tech pass before both. It was clear that our Cavern/Intro instructor was a little befuddled about what to do with us, because he didn't have to teach buoyancy, trim, non-silting propulsion, no-mask swimming, helicopter turns or back kick. That skill level ought to be the prerequisite for all cave classes, and every agency should have an OW class that teaches those things, because they do not at all need to be learned in a cave.

 

[Doc Harry]

IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY THE CARD IS YOURS.

Ain't capitalism grand?

 

[karstdvr]

Ok for those who are not instructors. What skills do you feel you may not have been worked on enough during your cave training?

Understanding the cave environment itself. How can you understand the importance of protecting something and cave conservation, if you don't understand the environment itself. Our dry caving cousins kick our butt on this, and they don't even have a certifying course. Sorry to say some of these caves are treated as a playground and don't respect that it is a fragile ecosystem that has globally imperiled species living in them.

 

[The Chairman]

A fundies like class before cave is a good idea. Whereas trim/propulsion/hovering were a part of Cavern classes past, it seems that many instructors have little inclination to push that now. I know I came to Rick Murcar's cavern class with more than adequate skills in that regard and he let me know that. That was a source of pride for me, and made me want to perform even better.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

Our dry caving cousins kick our butt on this, and they don't even have a certifying course.

They always walk on the bottom, they drive pitons into the walls. We never do that....

---------- Post added March 27th, 2015 at 08:34 AM ----------

Whereas trim/propulsion/hovering were a part of Cavern classes past, it seems that many instructors have little inclination to push that now.

The below is copied from the NSS-CDS S&P's. Bolding is my own.

2.1 Cavern Diver: Course Description and Standards
2.1.1 Purpose
The course develops the minimum skills and knowledge for cavern diving and describes the dangers involved with cave diving. Planning, cave environment, procedures, techniques, problem solving and other specialized needs of cavern diving are covered. Problem solving in cavern diving includes, but is not limited to, body positioning (trim), buoyancy control, emergency procedures, line following and propulsion techniques. Accident analysis forms the basis of this learning experience. Special emphasis on the unique environment includes silting, entanglement, disorientation and equipment modifications. The dangers of unsafe practices and more advanced cave diving are discussed. Developing basic skills and refining techniques and procedures required for the most elementary of cave dives is the basis of this course. Cavern dives are planned around very limited penetrations so that the diver may progress to cave diving at a conservative pace. The Cavern Diver course is not intended to train divers for all facets of cave diving.

So when an NSS-CDS class is taught the above elements are expected to be taught to mastery.