Buying 1st regulator so many choices - advice or links to non bias consumer reviews?

[kathydee]

So glad I found this group.

I have been vacation diving for 3 years but fell in love this year diving Sipadan Island in Malaysia Borneo & Lembeh Straights in Sulawesi Indonesia. I just complete my AOW and 63rd dive this summer and am overjoyed with sweet obsession! So @ 3am I am using my jet lag to research purchasing a new regulator ;-).

Feeling inexperienced and a bit overwhelmed with the decision of comitting to such an important piece of gear. There is so much experience in this group, hopefully some of you can read what I need and offer a few suggestions as a solid starting point. (I have already read over and over that a lot is personal preference!)

Also, it would be great if anyone knows of links to websites that offer non-bias consumer reviews for both regs and other equipment.

Truthfully, I have been diving at some budget places and am sick of being scared of the crappy old regs. So taking the plunge to invest $400-$550? (what is necessary) for a regulator & octopus that I can trust and depend on.

I have been diving mostly in water 65 degrees F and much warmer but do not want a gear purchase to limit future diving in slightly colder water.

Specifically I am looking for a regulator that:

*is tried/tested/extremely reliable & rated highly
*is small & lightweight for travel
*is balanced (breathes easily around 100 ft)
*has an excellent waranty
*Doesn't freeze up in colder water or purge easily in strong currents (I live in San Francisco & may dive there occasionally)
*is Nitrox compatible

In the future:
I probably won't dive in water colder than 55 F
I probably will take a rescue diver course and Nitrox course
I may well take a dive master course
If given a good reason, I will dive a bit deeper than 100 ft, but probably not much more than 130 ft

(if it matters I weigh 125 lbs)

Was looking at the XTX200 Apeks Aqua Lung regulator- is this overkill? Any other suggestions?

Thanks!

 

[DA Aquamaster]

An "unbiased consumer review" is an oxymoron.

You can get unbiased testing, but that is also flawed as many of those very objective tests rule out all the subjective things that make up about 90% of the variance in customer satisfaction.

For example, a reg may have an excelelnt work of breathing but it is common for companies to "cheat" and get excellent scores by installing super soft exhaust valves that then breathe incredibly wet in certyain positions - something not reflected in objective testing. The other common cheat is to use a abnoirmally low inhalation effort on the test bench that does not actually provide stabel performance in the water. In short one of the most "objective" and most quoted test measures available - work of breathing - is basically meaningless without other sibjective test data.

Your best bet is cruise around on the baord, see what people use and see what they like and don't like.

Personally, I think the best rega available right now is the Scubapro Mk 17 G250V for rec, tech or extreme cold water diving, and it is light enough and compact enough to make a decent warm water travel reg.

The Mk 11 G250V is a little lighter and smaller if you really will never dive cold water, but he cost difference is on the order of $20, and the fully sealed Mk 17 is easier to rinse as there is no potential for salt to remain in the ambient chamber.

The TX100 / XTX200 /Legend second stages are basically copies of the G250 and are comparable in performance, although for similar money, service in Aisa, and a guarentee of long term parts and service support, I'd stick with Scubapro and the original design.

 

[Colliam7]

Also, it would be great if anyone knows of links to websites that offer non-bias consumer reviews for both regs and other equipment.

I would love to see if anyone responds with specific links. The 'non-bias' part is tough. Many dive magazines publish reviews of equipment. For whatever reason some sources are seen as more biased (e.g. PADI's Sport Diver) while others are viewed as more objective (e.g. Scuba Diving). I seldom find such distinctions to be accurate. Plus, 'objective' reviews are only as applicable as the conditions and procedures involved in the evaluation allow them to be. Generally, any source that accepts significant advertising revenue is going to be associated with at least the possibility of bias. But, more to the point, there are so many regulators out there (brands, models, 'levels') that creating a comprehensive review is almost impossible. What you can get here on SB is a lot of (valid) first person testimonial, saying 'Brand X, model Z is fantastic'. I have used it for 20 years and never had a problem.' And, within the 'levels' in each brand you can find an excellent regulator. A bigger consideration is probably getting something that can be locally serviced where you will do most of your diving, or where you might travel to dive.

I have been diving at some budget places and am sick of being scared of the crappy old regs. So taking the plunge to invest $400-$550? (what is necessary) for a regulator & octopus that I can trust and depend on.

A very logical and sound decision. The quality of maintenance (preventive and required) on rental regulators, and rental equipment in general, is highly variable, but the median level lies distinctly toward the 'atrociously bad' end of the spectrum.

Was looking at the XTX200 Apeks Aqua Lung regulator- is this overkill? Any other suggestions?

Some on this board would say it is overkill for the type of diving you describe. (I won't, but then I have 2 ATX200s). It is a very good regulator, it certainly meets the requirements you have outlined, and I doubt you will ever have any reason to second guess the decision, based on quality and performance. If you compare it to your criteria:
*is tried/tested/extremely reliable & rated highly YES
*is small & lightweight for travel Weight differences among regs are trivial
*is balanced (breathes easily around 100 ft) YES
*has an excellent waranty YES
*Doesn't freeze up in colder water or purge easily in strong currents YES on the cold water. The purge issue is easily addressed by second stage adjustment (for most regulators).
*is Nitrox compatible YES
But, there are probably 10 (or many more) other regs that will easily meet these requirements from different brand lines. For example, DA mentions ScubaPro - excellent brand. I would add Zeagle for quality and reliability - I have several ZX-50Ds and love them, for shallow, deep, cold, warm, etc. It is like buying a PC. Some people spend an inordinate amount of time comparing brands and models and touted performance, and looking to save $15.81 on the purchase, to get some modest / trivial perceived advantage in performance. If your income supports buying this kind of gear, your time is probably worth more than that. As DA suggests, see what recommendations you get on the board, narrow the choices down based on meeting all your criteria, and service availability, make a decision (pick a slip of paper out of a hat, or throw darts at a board), then take a plunge with your new regulator.

 

[=C=]

Hi Kathy,

The TX100 is a simpler and some argue better design (I'm in this camp). This is an excellent regulator, probably not overkill.

I would also look at the Scubapro MK25 / s600 set.

Buy a nice reg. You will have it a while.

Most importantly find your local dive shop and go talk to them. They will have the best idea of what awaits you off the SF waters and what is appropriate equipment wise.

I would also suggest buying a dive computer... and mention if you go for one of these brands total investment will be a bit over your target because you need to still purchase either a set of analog gauges or a computer + compass.

-Cliff

 

[kathydee]

Thanks for the response! It's very helpful info comming from such experienced divers! I am wondering if there is there a simple way to learn where the various international scuba service centers are globally located?

Kathy

 

[Web Monkey]

*is tried/tested/extremely reliable & rated highly
*is small & lightweight for travel
*is balanced (breathes easily around 100 ft)
*has an excellent waranty
*Doesn't freeze up in colder water or purge easily in strong currents (I live in San Francisco & may dive there occasionally)
*is Nitrox compatible

The Atomic Aquatics M1 meets all those requirements except for "lightweight". It's about as light as most, however not as light as the titanium models.

It has a completely sealed first stage which prevents freezing and freeflows in cold water and the second stage is designed to prevent freeflows and unwanted purging) when facing into strong currents.

There are almost certainly other regulators that meet these requirements, however this is what I dive with and can recommend.

Terry

 

[Isaac-1]

Let me put another slant on things, peronaly I am biased towards Scubapro, but that is a seperate issue. For the type of diving you are talking about any name brand regulator will do just fine, particularly if you stay towards their mid to upper end models. I also don't think there has been a truely "bad" name brand regulator built in the last 25 years, sure there are those that I don't like, such as any of the micro bodied units, but that does not mean they are bad, just not my thing. There are a few that have had issues, but most of that is handled by manufactuer recalls. Far more important than the regulator itself is availability of service, this means now where you live, while traveling if something were to break, and 5,10, or 20 years from now. For that reason if no other make sure what you buy is from a company with a history of good support, and is not a model that was only built for a year or two.

 

[beester]

You came to the right place but distilling the information you need is still a hassle.

If you ask most run of the mill divers what they would suggest as a good reg they will say their own. Perfectly normal but rather subjective. If you read mags you 'll see that some will be biased towards sponsers and other are more objective and will give you an ansi breathing rating... which as DA Aquamaster already very well explained is no guarantee in it self.

So what to do... what to choose... ? Well first as already stated with all main brands you can't go wrong for normal recreational warm water diving. They all perform ok. If you up the level a bit you'll find in every A brand for a reasonable price very good breathers... Still not much help is it?

My only real advice is examine what kind of diving you do or want to do in the future. Then decide on the features that will mostly compliment the diving you do. Pick a few models with those features and dive them... see how you like them. Then decide.

Features that could be important:

-1st stage PISTON or MEMBRANE.
Piston regulators are only made by a couple of brands. At their core they are more simple designs that can be very performant (more then membrane). Negative is that certain designs are not as cold water proof or use special techniques to improve cold water performance.
Membrane regulators are made by all brands. They are a bit more complicated in design and therefore service is a bit more difficult (depends on brand). Performance is slightly less than piston but this is mostly theoretical (look up posts by DA Aquamaster on this very subject). They are in core better cold water regulators.

- 1 Stage BALANCED or UNBALANCED
Balanced means that when the pressure in your tank drops (tank gets empty) or the surrounding pressure of the water gets higher (you go deeper) that the regulator will compensate and your breathing resistance will remain the same.
Unbalanced means that you will start noticing a difference in breathing resistance the deeper you go or the emptier the tank goes. This doesn't mean you won't get air... only that resistance will be higher (can also be a positive point... for example in stage bottles).

- 1 Stage SEALED or UNSEALED
A sealed regulator design won't allow water to enter the inside of the regulator. valve action will still use ambient pressure but this will not be direct. This means that in normal use no salt or filth can enter the regulator and this will make cleaning it easier.

- 1 Stage HP and LP ports
How many high pressure and low pressure ports you have on the regulator. Most of the time you'll get 4 or 5 LP and 1 or 2 HP ports. How they are arranged on you regulator can also be an advantage in certain setups.

- 1 Stage metal
Most are made of brass, some of titanium. Titanium has a higher marketing value (only top models) is of course lighter but not necessarily better. If you plan on diving Nitrox don't use titanium.
- 2nd stage Metal or Plastic or in between
2nd stages used to be metal, then plastic compound and some are back to metal or use metal inner workings. This has all to do with cold water performance and dry breathing. The more metal on the 2nd stage the more transfer of cold to ambient water temp can happen which will warm up the air in the regulator and prevent freezing. If you dive only warm water this is of no concern.
- 2nd stage gizmos:
Cracking pressure valves to decrease or increase breathing resistance... Venturi assist valves, whatever. If a regulator is nicely set up by your service technician you do not need these gizmos... but some like them and use them.

In your case I would go for a balanced Membrane regulator. If you dive cold I would make sure that it is a sealed design and maybe also look a bit at how the 2nd stage is setup.

Good examples with those features are:
Apeks (all models)
Aqualung (Titan, Legend)
Scubapro (MK11, MK17... G250V as second stage).

Pick some and go dive them... then decide...

PS: I dive SP MK17/G250V and MK17/R109 combo's. (couldn't resist) :14:

 

[pescador775]

DA Aquamaster is probably right about the MK17/G250, you should get it for the quality and world wide service availability. The other regulators are good, too but I think you should purchase something that anyone in the world would recognize especially given your history. All this technical chitchat is enlightening but you are not in a position to evaluate these characteristics and how they relate to the quality and suitability of particular regulators. DA is a respected poster of long duration and an expert on Scubapro. For me, I hate the Scubapro company but tip my hat to some of their products, not all. Being a dainty lady, there may be a temptation to purchase a regulator with very small second stage but frankly, I believe that the vintage design of the G250 will be more rugged and reliable than most. Scubapro will armtwist you into the regular inspection regime but it is not all bad, especially if one is not an equipment wonk who self services their gear. Second choice would be Apeks, eg if you absolutely prefer a smaller second stage. Third is Aqualung recognizing the world wide trade name.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Oddly enough I share Pescador's sentiments about Scubapro. They have strayed from the path of enlightment since they were acquired by Johnson Worldwide in the mid 1990's, but lately they have shown promising signs of again putting solid engineering in front of marketing.

I am also not a fan of their double talk regarding internet sales. They won't let their dealers compete and hold them to no more than a 10% discount below MSRP and allow over the counter sales only. Yet they do nothing to stop the internet sales that they will not let their dealers compete with.

But they make some excellent regulators and offer superb long term parts and service support and whenever possible make upgrades in new models retrofittable into older models. That on top of solid performing designs means their regs almost never end up being obsolete.