Buddy missing on surface - What would you have done?

[scubajoe]

Thanks Pug!

Joe

 

[pelan-pelan]

I've come to this thread late.

Signs and signals - have dived in locations world-wide and have found a variation in what is used locally and in those used by other divers from around the world. First dive with what turned out to be a very good buddy - experienced diver, always watching, always close, never rushing - but - turned out I couldn't read some of their signs.

So - a sign check is part of the plan. And not to ignore local signs - they can be very useful - if there are local conditions eg current, thermocline, type of fish - which are unusual, then if there is a sign you need to know then it makes you aware that these unexpected things exist. And of course now you can communicate about them.

And thanks to Don for shaking us up and getting us to think about whooopses (previous post, can't remember who) that we sometimes "forget about". I have returned to nightmare night dive when lost buddy, went into search-for-one-minute and then ascend procedure only to find myself bobbing on the surface like a cork. Brain overload. Where is buddy? We were only a yard or less apart. How to get help? Am I going to get bent? How long before rest of group realises they a short one buddy pair? A welcome splash and a voice - buddy no more than 4 feet away - came up before me. How? Why? Think we hit the mother of a thermocline, failed to react quickly because fewer points of reference in the dark - although I think that we probably couldn't have reacted quickly enough anyway. But we were close together, and I applied the one minute rule, and surfaced involuntarily, close together. And we had been at about 30 feet and had been down for less than 30 minutes.

My experience is that night dives are when buddy rules are easily broken. People focus on what they can see in that beam of light and seem to get drawn along by it. They don't watch the boring black shape of their buddy nearly enough.

 

[Jim Kerr]

You're a real gentleman Don. You took a lot of uncalled for cheap shots and kept your cool. I'ld dive with you anytime.

As others have suggested I would also recommend that you take the Rescue course. Get the manual and go through it while you're waiting for your instructor to recooperate. You'll find a lot of good information in it.

 

[DandyDon]

As with everything communications is the key. It has been mentioned as to some hand signs. There is a very good course available for divers - it is called seasigns. It was developed by a diver after she watched her brother and his daughter (the daughter is porfoundly deaf) communicating under water. It is based on the American Sign Language. In Seasigns gangrel's sign for pressure is loosely "again".

Becky

I think I saw those at the Houston Dema. Seemed interesting, but I normally don't want to hold a conversation underwater. Perhaps a very good idea in some other cases.

Anyway, my shortcomings were as we've covered: (1) I could have suggested a more detailed dive plan briefing before the dive, as the 2 vacation divers were looking to me as the more experienced. (2) I should have searched the surface first when one diver seemed missing, then organized a safer search. (3) I should been more open to the Rescue course before. So I'll work on improving. :05: Oh yeah, remind or tell other divers that even tho it may seem like I wear a lot of gear and toys - I'm not a DM, or even much of a diver, so work with me please on keeping the dive save.

You're a real gentleman Don. You took a lot of uncalled for cheap shots and kept your cool. I'ld dive with you anytime.

As others have suggested I would also recommend that you take the Rescue course. Get the manual and go through it while you're waiting for your instructor to recooperate. You'll find a lot of good information in it.

Thanks, you're kind to say so. And my thanks to others on this thread who have actually addressed the question in the thread title, as well as to those who have derailed the jackal posters. We really want SB members to feel that they can share experiences on this and other forums without being attacked, or if it happens - that more reasonable members will step in to assist with keeping the thread reasonable.

 

[Eidolon]

How far from shore where you when you surfaced from the dive? How did the missing diver get so far ahead of you guys, did he skip the safety stop or something?

Given the "if you're separated underwater, search for one minute and then ascend and regroup on the surface" rule I would have assumed that he would be up in a couple of minutes regardless. Also given that you saw him at the safety stop I don't think I would have been too worried but it would be odd not to see him on the surface within a few minutes. I don't have much to add to what has already been said other than to say that if you have someone on the surface, use them as surface support if they're comfortable with it and make sure they understand that role. All of this could have been avoided with surface support coordination.

 

[Jim Kerr]

My appologies Don for not answering the original question in my last post. What I'ld have done given those same circumstances would be to conduct a more thorough surface search including verbly asking the bubble watcher if she saw the diver in question come out of the water before I begin to worry. It has been my experience when ever these things have happened to me was that they're already out of the water. I get very annoyed when this happens and it depends on the conversation that follows that decides if I dive with them again or not.

 

[DandyDon]

My appologies Don for not answering the original question in my last post. What I'ld have done given those same circumstances would be to conduct a more thorough surface search including verbly asking the bubble watcher if she saw the diver in question come out of the water before I begin to worry. It has been my experience when ever these things have happened to me was that they're already out of the water. I get very annoyed when this happens and it depends on the conversation that follows that decides if I dive with them again or not.

Hehe, no problem! Yeah, we might have had a conversation, then proceeded more carefully with the second dive - but he split. Haven't talked to him since. My other buddy and I did the second dive just fine, and since then.

 

[limeyx]

BOAT? What boat? Thw Blue Hole in Santa Rosa where Don was diving is a hole on the ground full of water. It is aproximately 60 feet in diameter at the surface and 100ft in diameter at the bottom. Depthis 81 or so feet deep, water is normally very clear. You can see the bottom quite clearly from 60 ft. Takes about 30 seconds to see every square inch of it. No need for a dive flag, mentioned earlier in this thread, since there are no boats. Not much of a need for a SMB since you can see either one of the "platforms" from anywhere in the hole. I think Don mentioned that the visibility was great do to increased out flow of the spring. The Blue Hole is not the ocean or a muddy quarry or lake.

Joe

boat, dock -- whatever you want to call the thing you "get off of and into the water" I guess

and even stunning vis doesn;t generally allow one to breathe water!

 

[vkalia]

You've got a lot of comments from people on how to have prevented being in the situation. But you are right - even with the best of planning, compost happens.

Contrary to what some might have you believe, there is no single "correct" answer on what to do if you come up from a dive and your buddy doesnt. A few questions to consider:

1/ What is your experience/fitness level and your buddy's?
2/ How much air and NDL time do you have?
3/ How much time would it take to get a fresh rescue team in, as opposed to going in yourself
4/ How much incremental risk are you willing to take for your buddy?
5/ How deep/large is the search area?

Let's take three different cases: 2 buddies diving together, both of whom are beginners; an experienced instructor and an OW student; and a parent with a child - think the responses might be different in each case?

What I would do is not necessarily the same thing as what I would do were I you because of points 1-5 above.

To give you some credit, you were on the right track in a few cases:

- you considered your air supply and NDL (although the fact that you came up with your tank dry indicates you misjudged how much time you had)
- you tried to use surface support - although again, you didnt really have too much of that to begin with, and you could have utilized it better. One important lesson there is that if you have surface support, make sure they know what to do if something goes south. Recognizing an ok signal is probably the most useless thing for them to remember.
- you tried to be a good buddy.

The decision to go back down, by itself, is not always wrong (see points 1-5). When someone you care for is missing, trust me - you are not going to want to wait the 10-15 min it takes for a fresh team to enter the water.

Your biggest mistake, IMO, was not engaging backup before going down, especially given your experience and training.

Since you asked what others would do: I'd have asked for backup, and then swum at a shallow depth till I located bubbles - periodically looking up to see if the diver had surfaced. Depending on the location/profile, I may have popped down to see if I could locate him where I saw him last (1500 psi = 100 bar = ample air for *me* to go to 80-90ft, do a short search and ascend slowly/safely with a brief "deep" stop and a longer safety stop; your air consumption and limits may vary).

But as I said earlier, this isnt important. What you need to figure out is what *YOU* should do, and there has been a lot of good info here, along with the posturing and beatings.

Cheers,
Vandit

 

[DandyDon]

Thanks for your kind comments. I'm gonna' stick in a few comments here...

You've got a lot of comments from people on how to have prevented being in the situation. But you are right - even with the best of planning, compost happens.

Contrary to what some might have you believe, there is no single "correct" answer on what to do if you come up from a dive and your buddy doesnt. A few questions to consider:

1/ What is your experience/fitness level and your buddy's?
2/ How much air and NDL time do you have?
3/ How much time would it take to get a fresh rescue team in, as opposed to going in yourself
4/ How much incremental risk are you willing to take for your buddy?
5/ How deep/large is the search area?

Let's take three different cases: 2 buddies diving together, both of whom are beginners; an experienced instructor and an OW student; and a parent with a child - think the responses might be different in each case?

What I would do is not necessarily the same thing as what I would do were I you because of points 1-5 above.

To give you some credit, you were on the right track in a few cases:

- you considered your air supply and NDL (although the fact that you came up with your tank dry indicates you misjudged how much time you had)

Pony bottle close to dry at end, back gas - which I'd returned to -still had 500#. Really okay there.

- you tried to use surface support - although again, you didnt really have too much of that to begin with, and you could have utilized it better. One important lesson there is that if you have surface support, make sure they know what to do if something goes south. Recognizing an ok signal is probably the most useless thing for them to remember.
- you tried to be a good buddy.

Tried. Always try...

The decision to go back down, by itself, is not always wrong (see points 1-5). When someone you care for is missing, trust me - you are not going to want to wait the 10-15 min it takes for a fresh team to enter the water.

Yeah, with his crippled wife waiting in their car. :11:

Your biggest mistake, IMO, was not engaging backup before going down, especially given your experience and training.

Since you asked what others would do: I'd have asked for backup, and then swum at a shallow depth till I located bubbles - periodically looking up to see if the diver had surfaced. Depending on the location/profile, I may have popped down to see if I could locate him where I saw him last (1500 psi = 100 bar = ample air for *me* to go to 80-90ft, do a short search and ascend slowly/safely with a brief "deep" stop and a longer safety stop; your air consumption and limits may vary).

But as I said earlier, this isnt important. What you need to figure out is what *YOU* should do, and there has been a lot of good info here, along with the posturing and beatings.

Cheers,
Vandit

Again, thanks.