Buddy missing on surface - What would you have done?

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DandyDon:
Yep, I think it's been well established that I was wrong to skip the Rescue class, much less attempt one like I did. Again - I will talk to my Instructor about it when he gets out of hospital. :thumb:

You didn't skip it...you just haven't taken it yet. That's easily rectified. :)
 
Second and last warning: if you want to take cheap shots at the thread starter I will see to it that your have free and unfettered access to rec.scuba or any other forum of your choosing with the exception Scuba Board.

If you want to discuss the original question or the original incident feel free... but if you want to discuss and disparage the thread starter your Scuba Board account will be terminated.
 
Dandy Don,

You asked for input, so here goes...

First, you seem to be caught making less than optimal dives. Best advice? Don't. More in a moment.

Second, I completely agree with others who have posted: "TAKE A RESCUE COURSE". You really will not regret it. As a side note, I would not hang everything off one instructor, unless you are really hooped in terms of available instructors. If this fellow is out of commission right now, ask him to recommend another instructor. But, exposure to other instructors will benefit you in the long run, IMO.

As for the info you've received about the solo search and all that - again, the rescue course will teach you what you need to know. No need to rehash that.

Third. You seem to be taking a lead role in these dives. That's good. However, once you assume that role, you have every right to ask the other divers to agree to some ground rules, such as "we dive as a team", etc. If one of the divers won't agree, you can always bail the dive. Don't be afraid to bail on a dive that doesn't feel right.

Thing is, diving should be fun. If it isn't fun, then why do that dive? Personally, I'm done with babysitting buddies that don't give an f--- about anyone but themselves. I am willing to dive with anyone, but only if we agree on the ground rules before the dive.

As for diving with 3, I have no problems with that at all. Team diving is team diving, and 3 is a perfectly acceptable team. However, the emphasis needs to be on team.

Cheers,

-S
 
I did speak with my Instructor's wife today - he's out of the hospital, doing well, and while he will be out for a while, on the mend. He is a Padi and TDI instructor, and I didn't think Padi Rescue was the way I wanted to go - based on some of the Padi Rescue divers I've known, but - she tells me that while he uses the Padi course and book, he brings in a lot of TDI self rescue teaching, so it should be a lot better course.

We don't have a large number of Instructors to chose from here on the high plains, my original instructor doesn't even dive anymore, and three of others have been sidelined by injuries or medical problems since I started, but I'm looking forward to working with this one in the near future.

Even tho I accepted early on in this thread that searching for the missing diver like I did was dangerous, I shouldn't have done it, and shouldn't next time it happens - I do want to know what to do next time, so I do want the training I once thought I didn't. We also don't have many dive sites to choose from here, but we'll do the Rescue course next time he goes to Balmorhea, and the Deco course later when he goes to Santa Rosa NM. I feel that since he knows I'm going to do both with him, and I am doing these for the learning, not just as stepping stones to something else, that he will make the courses more rewarding. I'll do what I can to cooperate along those lines, too. :05:
 
lamont:
Problem with that one is that the guy you sent back could have had a problem -- lets say he inflates his BC a little more and his OPV explosively disintegrates and the BC deflates. Now he's struggling on the surface, and he 62 years old and his heart is racing and that precipitates a CVA...

I can't say I haven't done anything similar, but the ideal is that you keep everyone together. Searching for the other guy on the surface, finding his bubbles and dropping on him I think was fine though. You're in 12 feet of water and you know that there's at least one certified diver below you and you're getting closer to them the entire time you're descending...

I'm actually confused about the decision to leave the other diver down below.
What if he had a problem surfacing?

I would have thought that the safest thing to do would have been to thumb the dive (which was done), but that means that you surface *with* your buddy, not leave them down there, right?

Then once you are both on the surface, you try to help the diver who surfaced without warning or signaling. Otherwise it seems you just end up way too separated out (one on the bottom supposedly surfacing, one on the surface with a problem and another diver surfacing to help him)
 
limeyx:
I'm actually confused about the decision to leave the other diver down below.
What if he had a problem surfacing?

I would have thought that the safest thing to do would have been to thumb the dive (which was done), but that means that you surface *with* your buddy, not leave them down there, right?

Then once you are both on the surface, you try to help the diver who surfaced without warning or signaling. Otherwise it seems you just end up way too separated out (one on the bottom supposedly surfacing, one on the surface with a problem and another diver surfacing to help him)

Can't speak for him, 'cause I was not part of the team, but my understanding was that he believed the other diver understood the dive was thumbed, but they began their ascent, and he didn't. Communications problem, but once at the surface, the choices were limited...
 
Uncle Pug said: Second and last warning: if you want to take cheap shots at the thread starter I will see to it that your have free and unfettered access to rec.scuba or any other forum of your choosing with the exception Scuba Board.

If you want to discuss the original question or the original incident feel free... but if you want to discuss and disparage the thread starter your Scuba Board account will be terminated.

THANK YOU!!!

I haven't posted to this thread before now, but I've been watching it from afar. I'm fairly new to SB, but I've jumped in with both feet and accumulated a suprising number of (hopefully useful) posts in a short time.

Despite the warm welcome and general helpfulness I've seen, this thread was beginning to sour me on this board. I'm here to learn from others' mistakes. That can't happen if those who are willing to post about their errors (or potential errors) are getting put down or harrassed about it.

I hate to see the moderators have to threaten people, but I'm also disappointed that we're not acting as adults -much less a "community" of divers...
 
gangrel441:
Can't speak for him, 'cause I was not part of the team, but my understanding was that he believed the other diver understood the dive was thumbed, but they began their ascent, and he didn't. Communications problem, but once at the surface, the choices were limited...
Limeyx is talking about my post, and he is right. We should have surfaced together.
 
Don, --This is not written in an attacking tone--

You have taken a beating and I'm sure you learned from it. I've been certified since 92. I'm not the end all beat all of divers by any means. For me it's a learning process on every dive. I draw from previous dives on what happened and try to recognize what caused the problem and be aware of it in the future. I'm working on my Divemaster currently and I am enjoying the challenges it brings.

You said you ran into a class on your way back. I assume this is where you lost your third diver. Personally I would not assume he went back down considering there was a mass of people. My first thought would be to sort out who is who. There is no reason to waste time descending 80ft when your not sure.

I dive with newer divers that don't have buddies quite a bit. I learn on every dive with them. I've learned that you can not assume anything about their training. Even if you know who trained them and trust that person, an individual still does not dive like that instructor that taught them. They don't know how I dive either. I'm usually laid back and take the dive at their pace. But they also don't know the local dive sites as I do, so I know I have to lead them a little. If the lake has lines from object to object, then I let the pair go first so I can see them and we move at their pace. If it's a compass nav to an object, it's follow the leader (not single file, but wingman, off to the side where I can see them at a glance), we decide who is navigating. If it's me, I go slow and still check on the other two often. If the vis is too poor (my judgement of too poor may differ fom yours), I do not attempt the compass with more than one other diver.

The biggest thing to learn is to communicate and observe how the other divers dive. If I see that they do not keep track of each other, then I take responsibility for that aspect and watch them. Usually it's not a big deal, I'm in the water, I'm not missing much since I've been there before. More often however, as new divers they don't want to get seperated either.

What would I have done.... You were in a lake right? You were all together at your safety stop and the training class was "doing skills on the lines". At what point in the safety stop did you get seperated? Personally I would have left the line with my buddies and stayed clear of the group and kept contact and communication with my buddies. I would not leave the line on a boat dive, but your less likely to have a class drop on you there. The other option is to stay on the line, let the group pass then ascend. An extra minute at the stop will not hurt you.

Backing up in the dive a little bit. The air checks. You can not rely on them to just come to you with their air supply. What if they have a better consumption rate than you? You can not assume you have the better rate just because they dive less. Your air is your concern, their air is on them, but sometimes in a dive a person forgets, they get to watching a fish or enjoying the view. Tap your palm or your gauge and ask how much air they have every so often (they should ask you too). This lack of communication foreshadowed that lack of communication later.

Diving with buddies is not a "hey I did my part" event. Sometimes you have to do more than "your part". I think you knew when you posted what went wrong and what you could have done different. But getting mad at the other diver was not right. You assumed what he would do based on what you would have done. He's not you. Was the other diver wrong? Maybe he is mad at you for leaving him. The best course there would not to have gone running and screaming at him. But calmly go to him and just ask, "Hey, what happened there?" Get his side, it make the learning easier, you then understand his point of view, you explain yours and you both learn.

Hind site is 20/20, learn from it to become a better diver and dive buddy in the future.

**If anyone disagrees with my approach, please reply. I'm willing to listen to your way and possibly adopting some ideas.**
 

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