Buddy in trouble---leave or stay?

[TSandM]

You know, it was stressed in my classes that the reason you dive thirds is not because anybody really expects that you will have to bring out an out-of-gas buddy from the point of maximum penetration. It is far more likely that you will encounter a delay, or some other problem that causes your gas to go faster than you thought it would, or your time in the cave to be longer than you thought. I, for example, kicked off a boot and the attached fin during my C2 class, which resulted in a siltout (you try keeping your balance when you're giving a big kick and suddenly there is no resistance on your foot at all!) and a delay, as the instructor went to find the missing boot and fin. We ran into REAL deco that we hadn't planned (but we had deco gas, because we were going to do simulated deco), which, without the deco gas, would have bitten into that extra third.

In most circumstances, that extra third ought to be enough to get you out. But this last accident is beautiful evidence that sometimes that isn't enough. Sometimes the gas on your buddy's back is the difference between living and dying. I don't think the buddy should take that gas out of the cave until he has to do so. But when he has to do so, he should, because the basic rule is still not to create a second fatality. And we should all be aware that the person who leaves WILL come out with extra gas, because if you wait until you only have enough gas to get yourself out and you encounter your buddy needing extra gas, you've got a much bigger problem.

 

[lv2dive]

Most of your conclusions I completely agree with (even if I don't agree with why you made them). I am in concurrence, for example, with your thoughts about the whole team being involved in dive planning, rules and communications, buddy separation and other protocols, and equipment and safety checks.

That being said, I completely disagree with your conclusion that a solo dive should be a requirement for a full cave card. I have no doubt my training (and experience) have prepared me to safely solo dive in multiple cave systems, to greater penetrations than 1000 ft. But quite simply, making that a *requirement* for a full cave card is IMHO absurd.

Of the three incidents I believe under discussion here, one was a class, and two were with people who had dove together (and may have even been regular-ish dive buddies).

To say imply that true buddy separation is running rampant based on the three dives (and another Ken brought up) is disingenuous. Other people have mentioned silt-outs where buddy separation was momentary. I've been on dives with my primary buddy and also another where we were separated for a very short period of time but we followed standard protocol and got back together quickly (although it may have seemed longer at the time!). No reason to even write it up as "incident" bc it was a complete non-issue. How many of those situations occur without mention? A few issues, one with a terrible outcome, don't mean the buddy system is broken.

Incidents like these clearly show how warped and broken the buddy system in cave diving has become.
Just to highlight a few of the issues.

• It is rare (at least in sidemount) to see gas- and gear matching, buddy checks and S-drills done. People more or less jump in and dive
• Buddy separation is not uncommon at all, both planned or simply because one team member just decided to leave the team
• Trust me dives are deemed normal, many people get into dives without planning and preparing themselves for any of the navigation involved. They leave this task for their buddy and prefer to be lead
• Chances are, (perceived) peer pressure and complacency can lead to additional bad planning and poor execution of the dive. Getting talked into visual jumps, not running primaries and other unsafe practices are common.
  Ask yourself the question in the context of the latest incidents, would the divers in the examples have planned and executed these exact dives, had they been solo? Or were their actions possibly based on a perceived feeling of security?
• The latest accidents and incidents have shown that when the brown stuff hits the fan, chances are that your buddy will bolt and "get help".
  The odds this happening may or may not depend on the individual, his training and experience. It may be justified in the eyes of your team member at this point, the result will be the same to you.
  So the key is, at this point of the dive you will have ZERO control over what your buddy does. So depending on it may end up being nothing but completely foolish and potentially deadly

My feeling is that we will see more of these types of incidents. The mentality of not accepting responsibility for your team and individuals in trouble appears to become increasingly common.

So what can be done about it?

The obvious choice is to make sure all team members are on the same level. All divers in the team need to possess comparable skill sets, all must be involved in the planning of the dive and know exactly what the dive is about.
The rules and signs of communications must be agreed upon and understood before the dive.
How to handle buddy separation and other protocols needs to be part of the briefing.
Equipment and safety checks should not be skipped, if your buddy has issues with that, it should make you wonder what else might be "skipped" during the dive.

Finally, and I'm sure we all agree here, at any point during the dive, no matter where it leads, each team member must be able to safely exit and end the dive on his or her own.

Being able to do that, in my view requires that at the core level, the dive is planned as being compatible with solo diving.
That means while you can share safety bottles or safety scooters with your team, your regular gas planning and choice of equipment needs to always allow you to end the dive on your own.

While this may not be a concept that is very popular among hard core team divers, I believe everyone should be provided this "get out of jail free card" at the time of certification. I feel all cave divers should possess the required skills, be trained and experienced in diving on their own.
My suggestion would be to add a mandatory solo dive as the final dive of the full cave class. This solo dive should be at the approximate level the diver was trained in and include a comparable penetration distance of say least 1000', including navigational decisions if possible.
It should help shape the mindset of the diver so that he or she will never easily fall into the trap of becoming dependant on someone else during a cave dive - and suffer the consequences.

 

[nakatomi]

That being said, I completely disagree with your conclusion that a solo dive should be a requirement for a full cave card. I have no doubt my training (and experience) have prepared me to safely solo dive in multiple cave systems, to greater penetrations than 1000 ft. But quite simply, making that a *requirement* for a full cave card is IMHO absurd.

Bill Rennaker told me that he made a very similar suggestion years ago for cave instructor training. He suggested that all instructors should perform a solo dive prior to being permitted to teach. At the time, his suggestion was also met with extreme resistance.
Why? Can it not be expected of a cave instructor that he can perform a simple cave dive on his own, from start to finish?
How is he going to take responsibility for others, if he is not even willing to be fully responsible for himself?

I would be interested in hearing why you consider the idea to be absurd? Surely there must be a reason for not liking the idea?

There should never be the situation where a diver cuts any corners, just because he has the added safety of a buddy or team. A lot of people do just that and the buddy or team becomes an excuse to get extra sloppy with the rules and gas management.
I've now had several people tell me about full cave certified divers, getting guided in Mexico and intentionally breaking thirds.
The motivation for this? Of course they paid a lot for the guide and wanted to get something for their money. With the guides using so little gas, they figured it would be ok and justified and considered him to be their mobile "fill station".
This is an extreme example, but I hope it gives food for thought.

It's time people accept responsibility for themselves, and for others that put their trust in them. A good diver should never be dependant on his team.
A good team consists of good divers that understand this concept. I believe solo diving can be used to shape the mindset and create good divers.

 

[kensuf]

Bill Rennaker told me that he made a very similar suggestion years ago for cave instructor training. He suggested that all instructors should perform a solo dive prior to being permitted to teach. At the time, his suggestion was also met with extreme resistance.
Why? Can it not be expected of a cave instructor that he can perform a simple cave dive on his own, from start to finish?
How is he going to take responsibility for others, if he is not even willing to be fully responsible for himself?

I would be interested in hearing why you consider the idea to be absurd? Surely there must be a reason for not liking the idea?

There should never be the situation where a diver cuts any corners, just because he has the added safety of a buddy or team. A lot of people do just that and the buddy or team becomes an excuse to get extra sloppy with the rules and gas management.
I've now had several people tell me about full cave certified divers, getting guided in Mexico and intentionally breaking thirds.
The motivation for this? Of course they paid a lot for the guide and wanted to get something for their money. With the guides using so little gas, they figured it would be ok and justified and considered him to be their mobile "fill station".
This is an extreme example, but I hope it gives food for thought.

It's time people accept responsibility for themselves, and for others that put their trust in them. A good diver should never be dependant on his team.
A good team consists of good divers that understand this concept. I believe solo diving can be used to shape the mindset and create good divers.

There's a difference between a cave instructor, and a brand new cave diver. I agree that a cave instructor NEEDS to be self-sufficient, and I understand and see Bill's point on that.

I also agree that a brand new cave diver SHOULD be self-sufficient, because there may be a day when they have to be. But making it a requirement to go solo for a graduation dive is about as absurd as saying that to get a rescue certification, someone must perform a real rescue and not a simulated one.

BTW -- my very first dive out of full cave was a solo dive to the white room. So I guess I would have passed Bill's test.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

We have many instructors who feel that solo cave diving is not a good idea. I am sympathetic with those feelings even though I thoroughly enjoy my solo cave dives. I would not be in support of adding a required solo dive as a performance requirement for someone to pass a cave instructor examination.

 

[bamafan]

My feelings are that if you aren't comfortable in a cave solo you have no reason to be there in a team. I enjoy my solo dives. The closest call I ever had in a cave was due to a mistake by my dive buddy. There are dives where a buddy is a liability. If because of the conditions it is impossible for either of you to assist the other then they are a liability. I really believe a cave instructor should be comfortable diving solo.

 

[nimoh]

My feelings are that if you aren't comfortable in a cave solo you have no reason to be there in a team. I enjoy my solo dives. The closest call I ever had in a cave was due to a mistake by my dive buddy. There are dives where a buddy is a liability. If because of the conditions it is impossible for either of you to assist the other then they are a liability. I really believe a cave instructor should be comfortable diving solo.

do you have an example of those conditions?

It seems to me that on any dive, teammates can help with navigational decisions. I can't imagine a dive where the conditions would prevent a teammate from doing this for the entire dive.

 

[bamafan]

Yes I do. A no mount cave is a prime example. Next time you are at Ginnie go just downstrean from July Spring (opposite side of the river from the park) there is a little spring there called Sawdust. Look at it and let me know how you think team diving would ever work. There are numerous passages in caves where the buddy is only good to sit outside the passage and wait. What good are they? They can't provide any assistance to you in the passage and are in a fact a liability. They could theoretically help once you come out but would extra gas not suffice. As far as navigational decisions they could confirm them but if they disagree and are determined to go the wrong way are you following them to your detriment? So how is a buddy necessary again?

 

[nimoh]

Yes I do. A no mount cave is a prime example. Next time you are at Ginnie go just downstrean from July Spring (opposite side of the river from the park) there is a little spring there called Sawdust. Look at it and let me know how you think team diving would ever work. There are numerous passages in caves where the buddy is only good to sit outside the passage and wait. What good are they? They can't provide any assistance to you in the passage and are in a fact a liability. They could theoretically help once you come out but would extra gas not suffice. As far as navigational decisions they could confirm them but if they disagree and are determined to go the wrong way are you following them to your detriment? So how is a buddy necessary again?

I think there is a difference between not being useful (which is what you are describing) and being a liability (the words you are using). In your scenario, it seems that the teammate is helping with navigation. If there is disagreement, then at the very least it would force you to rethink your decision and to be sure, and perhaps even have a wetnotes discussion about it. Also, if the teammate is just sitting outside the restriction, they could shine a light into the restriction, which may or may not help.

I would of course also, not recommend ever following someone in a cave unless you agree with their navigational decision. I have only been cave diving for a couple of years and have never had a navigational disagreement (and hope I never do).

I will also add that I have never been in Sawdust, and going primarily by my imagination based on what you wrote. I am perfectly willing to accept that what I wrote is completely wrong.

 

[Pavao]

The backup light on the line protocol is not universally taught, not everyone agrees with it.

Heck, we can't even agree on how to mark jumps and t's.

---------- Post added May 1st, 2015 at 08:00 AM ----------


...

Not to argue the point, but what is the disagreement, is it related to where the light should be pointed or is there more to it?

Just curious, thanks Ken.