Buddy in trouble---leave or stay?

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I am not a cave diver - but I carry a reel or spool and would use that to reenter the silt looking for my buddy. I am not sure why this has not been mentioned - but as a fireman we are taught to take added risk - risk little to save little - risk a lot to save a lot. Tying off and reentering just makes so much sense to me if you are prepared.
 
I am seeing the trend--stay with the buddy until the end, and that idea is covered in basic training.

So to go back to the three incidents that sparked this thread, the ones mentioned in the I gather the consensus is that the consensus is that in all three cases, the exiting diver made the wrong decision.
 
I am seeing the trend--stay with the buddy until the end, and that idea is covered in basic training.

So to go back to the three incidents that sparked this thread, the ones mentioned in the I gather the consensus is that the consensus is that in all three cases, the exiting diver made the wrong decision.
it can be difficult to determine what is right/wrong when under pressure. I can say I would question those decisions, but I wasn't there. In the end the further back you are the higher the likelihood that by the time you get help it will be too late for it to be of any good. That's time I feel is better spent being there for waiting for them. In the most recent incident the lost diver made it to around 10mins from the exit after a swim that was likely in the neighborhood of an hour. With a tow out he would have likely had enough gas to survive without a donation.
 
With a tow out he would have likely had enough gas to survive without a donation.

A tow would have resulted in survival, a stage would have resulted in survival, a dropped scooter would have resulted in survival, bigger tanks would have resulted in survival (I think he had 85s?), any combination of those things would have resulted in survival.
 
A tow would have resulted in survival, a stage would have resulted in survival, a dropped scooter would have resulted in survival, bigger tanks would have resulted in survival (I think he had 85s?), any combination of those things would have resulted in survival.
You left out common sense and proper planning...
 
If you're not doing one (or more) of the things I listed, you're not using common sense or proper planning.
 
So to go back to the three incidents that sparked this thread, the ones mentioned in the I gather the consensus is that the consensus is that in all three cases, the exiting diver made the wrong decision.

Incidents like these clearly show how warped and broken the buddy system in cave diving has become.
Just to highlight a few of the issues.


  • It is rare (at least in sidemount) to see gas- and gear matching, buddy checks and S-drills done. People more or less jump in and dive
  • Buddy separation is not uncommon at all, both planned or simply because one team member just decided to leave the team
  • Trust me dives are deemed normal, many people get into dives without planning and preparing themselves for any of the navigation involved. They leave this task for their buddy and prefer to be lead
  • Chances are, (perceived) peer pressure and complacency can lead to additional bad planning and poor execution of the dive. Getting talked into visual jumps, not running primaries and other unsafe practices are common.
    Ask yourself the question in the context of the latest incidents, would the divers in the examples have planned and executed these exact dives, had they been solo? Or were their actions possibly based on a perceived feeling of security?
  • The latest accidents and incidents have shown that when the brown stuff hits the fan, chances are that your buddy will bolt and "get help".
    The odds this happening may or may not depend on the individual, his training and experience. It may be justified in the eyes of your team member at this point, the result will be the same to you.
    So the key is, at this point of the dive you will have ZERO control over what your buddy does. So depending on it may end up being nothing but completely foolish and potentially deadly

My feeling is that we will see more of these types of incidents. The mentality of not accepting responsibility for your team and individuals in trouble appears to become increasingly common.

So what can be done about it?

The obvious choice is to make sure all team members are on the same level. All divers in the team need to possess comparable skill sets, all must be involved in the planning of the dive and know exactly what the dive is about.
The rules and signs of communications must be agreed upon and understood before the dive.
How to handle buddy separation and other protocols needs to be part of the briefing.
Equipment and safety checks should not be skipped, if your buddy has issues with that, it should make you wonder what else might be "skipped" during the dive.

Finally, and I'm sure we all agree here, at any point during the dive, no matter where it leads, each team member must be able to safely exit and end the dive on his or her own.

Being able to do that, in my view requires that at the core level, the dive is planned as being compatible with solo diving.
That means while you can share safety bottles or safety scooters with your team, your regular gas planning and choice of equipment needs to always allow you to end the dive on your own.

While this may not be a concept that is very popular among hard core team divers, I believe everyone should be provided this "get out of jail free card" at the time of certification. I feel all cave divers should possess the required skills, be trained and experienced in diving on their own.
My suggestion would be to add a mandatory solo dive as the final dive of the full cave class. This solo dive should be at the approximate level the diver was trained in and include a comparable penetration distance of say least 1000', including navigational decisions if possible.
It should help shape the mindset of the diver so that he or she will never easily fall into the trap of becoming dependant on someone else during a cave dive - and suffer the consequences.
 
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Final comment, it's easy to sit here behind a keyboard and say what we all would/should do. But this sport is not for everyone, and the reality is, when you're in a cave, thousands of feet from the exit, and the fit is hitting the shan, and that voice is screaming in the back of your head, that's when you're really going to find out what you would do. .

I read a lot of comments from posters about what they would do, or what they are taught,which the keyboard really makes it easy,but when it really happens you don't know what your response will be. We are animals with fight or flight hard wired into our system,and when something goes wrong, panic with flight is a natural response. The one way to overcome these things is good planning, and practice,practice, practice.... Going into a cave and intentionally silting it out to simulate conditions is destructive,but there are other places simulation and skills can be practiced.
 
Doesn't even need to be in a stressful or emergency situation. Similar discrepancies were shown by Chris Argyris, more related to the fields of management and decision-making. It's what he called espoused theory and theory-in-use.
 
I haven't seen anyone mention it, or maybe I missed it, but isn't this the scenario where you clip off one of your back up lights to the line, shinning the direction where you think your buddy will come from, if/when you have to leave of course?

The backup light on the line protocol is not universally taught, not everyone agrees with it.

Heck, we can't even agree on how to mark jumps and t's.

---------- Post added May 1st, 2015 at 08:00 AM ----------

I am seeing the trend--stay with the buddy until the end, and that idea is covered in basic training.

So to go back to the three incidents that sparked this thread, the ones mentioned in the I gather the consensus is that the consensus is that in all three cases, the exiting diver made the wrong decision.

I think there's a potential situation where it's appropriate to wish your buddy the best of luck, and leave on your own. Disagreeing on the navigational decisions to exit a cave, and being unable to convince them otherwise, is the perfect example.

---------- Post added May 1st, 2015 at 08:04 AM ----------

I read a lot of comments from posters about what they would do, or what they are taught,which the keyboard really makes it easy,but when it really happens you don't know what your response will be. We are animals with fight or flight hard wired into our system,and when something goes wrong, panic with flight is a natural response. The one way to overcome these things is good planning, and practice,practice, practice.... Going into a cave and intentionally silting it out to simulate conditions is destructive,but there are other places simulation and skills can be practiced.

If you dive with me, I'll inadvertently make enough silt that you won't need to be deliberate. :)

There's only so far that simulations can be of benefit, and the reactions may not be the same as in real life because somewhere in the back of their mind you may think "this is just a drill, it will be ok". There was a guy lost in zero vis in JB that thought it was all part of a drill in his full class -- I can't help but wonder how he would have reacted if he knew his instructor was on the surface.
 
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