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Boat diving.Do we have it all wrong?!
- Thread starter jale
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Yes, and with a closed ladder your only option is to pull your feet backwards off the rung and then somehow find the next slot with your fin-tips (that are following the wash) if you want to climb.
No thanks, tried it many times. Contrast that with fin raised to the top of the step that you are on. As soon as the seas allow just slide your fin out and up then back in. You can stay hunkered down while doing this. I've done it in confused seas. Seriously, the only rough part is approaching the ladder. Both styles look like chain saws with bubbles coming off the steps, tubes. Once you grab on you need to get your feet right.
Easy on a tree ladder, bitch on steps...
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I don't think anyone climbs a closed ladder with fins on, do they?
I dive with one operator in SE Florida with open ladders, they are fine. Everyone else has closed ladders, they work fine also. I dive whenever the boats go out, in big seas, particularly in the winter, I've had quite a bit of practice
[Start Rant]
One of my biggest gripes in scuba is with the people who try to act like this recreational activity is reserved for the few, the tough, and the strong.
This silly argument about whether people who can't tightrope over Niagara Falls wearing doubles are tough enough to ride on so-and-so's boat is a symptom of that misguided mindset.
If you're looking for recreational or technical diving to establish macho credibility, you're doing scuba wrong. And if you're deliberately doing things harder than you have to, you're not just failing to demonstrate your potential as a special ops warrior, you're failing to demonstrate common sense.
How is a novice diver going to believe us when we say, "The primary goal of every dive is for everyone to return safely," and "Dive within your limits and your training," if they see us on a boat refusing to help or shaming people into not accepting help with the task of bringing divers and their gear back aboard a pitching deck after a dive and a surface swim? Do you think they'll believe we care about safety?
I fail to see any virtue at all in insisting that divers get back aboard the boat unassisted. Even if they can do it, they can do it more safely and with better control if someone assists them. Because anyone can get winded. Anyone can slip on a ladder or boat. Anyone can have their grip on the rail affected by having the fin on their wrist go crosswise. It's safer and less disconcerting for all parties if someone is standing by positioned to and willing to help. Why is this even controversial?
There are lots of things I'm perfectly capable of doing for myself but let others do for me. Some Uber and Lyft drivers sincerely desire to show their commitment to good service by placing my luggage in the trunk themselves, even though I (as a holder of state powerlifting records in my age group) could do it much more easily than they can. And you know what? I let them. And then I tip them for the effort at the end of the ride.
If the ability and willingness to climb a ladder with full gear every time is your litmus test for an acceptably fit dive buddy, then the disqualification is mutual. If my prospective dive buddy won't admit it when help would be appreciated, then we're just not going to have a level of communication that promotes a safe and enjoyable dive.
[End Rant]
I feel much better now. Had a nice skills session in the pool today. Got out of the water all by myself. How's everyone else doing?
One of my biggest gripes in scuba is with the people who try to act like this recreational activity is reserved for the few, the tough, and the strong.
This silly argument about whether people who can't tightrope over Niagara Falls wearing doubles are tough enough to ride on so-and-so's boat is a symptom of that misguided mindset.
If you're looking for recreational or technical diving to establish macho credibility, you're doing scuba wrong. And if you're deliberately doing things harder than you have to, you're not just failing to demonstrate your potential as a special ops warrior, you're failing to demonstrate common sense.
How is a novice diver going to believe us when we say, "The primary goal of every dive is for everyone to return safely," and "Dive within your limits and your training," if they see us on a boat refusing to help or shaming people into not accepting help with the task of bringing divers and their gear back aboard a pitching deck after a dive and a surface swim? Do you think they'll believe we care about safety?
I fail to see any virtue at all in insisting that divers get back aboard the boat unassisted. Even if they can do it, they can do it more safely and with better control if someone assists them. Because anyone can get winded. Anyone can slip on a ladder or boat. Anyone can have their grip on the rail affected by having the fin on their wrist go crosswise. It's safer and less disconcerting for all parties if someone is standing by positioned to and willing to help. Why is this even controversial?
There are lots of things I'm perfectly capable of doing for myself but let others do for me. Some Uber and Lyft drivers sincerely desire to show their commitment to good service by placing my luggage in the trunk themselves, even though I (as a holder of state powerlifting records in my age group) could do it much more easily than they can. And you know what? I let them. And then I tip them for the effort at the end of the ride.
If the ability and willingness to climb a ladder with full gear every time is your litmus test for an acceptably fit dive buddy, then the disqualification is mutual. If my prospective dive buddy won't admit it when help would be appreciated, then we're just not going to have a level of communication that promotes a safe and enjoyable dive.
[End Rant]
I feel much better now. Had a nice skills session in the pool today. Got out of the water all by myself. How's everyone else doing?
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Oh, yeah. Probably not.
Just highlights my presumption that I wouldn't even consider doing that where I dive. Hell, if you don't need fins in rough seas, why bother with them at all?
If you so prize the luxury of climbing a ladder without full gear, all I can say is: "knock yourself out."
Bob DBF
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It begins when you can pay to hire the support personnel to make up for ones disability. A dive operation can only handle limited accomidation without needing more staff and/or specialized equipment. Most dive ops are set up, and expect, to work with self sufficient divers, expecting them to cater to a diver that cannot get on board with their kit on i believe is unreasonable.
If I was in the position of needing more than a steadying hand, I would contact the dive op and find out if my request for more assistance is unreasonable, and if there was way to mitigate the problem with additional renumaration. As I get older, I may find myself in that situation.
The safest way to bring a set of doubles back on board is strapped to someones back.
Anyone advocating for manual handling of the weight from sea level onto a boat is a danger to themselves and others.
Having a 90 pound weight swinging off a crane hook in open water is another idea that should not be taken lightly.
A lift is not viable for many operators.
Cold water/tech diving is not for everyone and has demands that warm Caribbean diving does not.
If you love diving find the type of diving that is within your limits and stick with it.Don't knowingly exceed those and risk injury to yourself or others.
Adaptive diving is something I have no experience in and think its a wonderful idea, but cold water/tech is not the realm for beginning adaptive diving with a diver of low/lower experience levels.
Anyone advocating for manual handling of the weight from sea level onto a boat is a danger to themselves and others.
Having a 90 pound weight swinging off a crane hook in open water is another idea that should not be taken lightly.
A lift is not viable for many operators.
Cold water/tech diving is not for everyone and has demands that warm Caribbean diving does not.
If you love diving find the type of diving that is within your limits and stick with it.Don't knowingly exceed those and risk injury to yourself or others.
Adaptive diving is something I have no experience in and think its a wonderful idea, but cold water/tech is not the realm for beginning adaptive diving with a diver of low/lower experience levels.
It all boils down to some people here like to argue for the sake of arguing. People like to carefully twist anything that is said on the Internet to fit their mold and narrative to what they want because society has told them they can do anything they want if they put their mind to it.
I'll repeat it again, this is not a macho or ego thing but diving is actual exercise and requires some level of physical fitness, technical diving even more so. I realize it may not always seem that way and some people make it look easy. Of course there are special circumstances and situations, adaptive scuba, for example Fine. Discuss it with the crew beforehand and be honest.
I know a lot of you think this is an elitist attitude but you know what really sucks? Dying on a dive charter in front of friends, family and crew members. Having to motor back into port with a blanket over your corpse after you've been cut out of your scuba kit and then cut out of your drysuit or wetsuit and then having to do CPR for 2 hours straight even though you know it's a lost cause or worse...not coming back with a body at all and leaving you on the bottom. It's a harsh reality that nobody likes to think about because we're all supposed to paint the pretty little narrative that diving is easy, always safe, fun and everyone can do it.
Look, I'm not in the best of shape and I would struggle to run a 5k in under 30 minutes right now. I realize that's pretty pathetic to some people here who can probably run a 6 minute mile in their sleep. Unfortunately I've had to rescue enough people in my short tenure as boat crew and captain that I really believe that sometimes people need to have a good and honest look in the mirror and think about their capabilities or limitations.
I'm happy to give help wherever I can if it means handing up deco or stage bottles, helping steady you to the swim platform in rough seas or giving you a little extra boost getting up the ladder. I'll swim a line out to you if you get a leg cramp and tow you back to the boat. I'll do a lot of things but what I won't do is enable somebody to dive that ultimately needs me to do absolutely everything for them, every time, every dive. It's not safe.
I feel I can speak for most boat operators when I say that none of us want you to die on our boat. It's far too much paperwork and really puts a damper on morale. Did I mention it really sucks?
Not everyone can be an astronaut just the same as not everyone can run a marathon or complete a triathlon. Some people can with hard work and training, others maybe it comes naturally while others simply can't do it at all. This culture of I can do anything I want with no limitations has to stop.
I'll repeat it again, this is not a macho or ego thing but diving is actual exercise and requires some level of physical fitness, technical diving even more so. I realize it may not always seem that way and some people make it look easy. Of course there are special circumstances and situations, adaptive scuba, for example Fine. Discuss it with the crew beforehand and be honest.
I know a lot of you think this is an elitist attitude but you know what really sucks? Dying on a dive charter in front of friends, family and crew members. Having to motor back into port with a blanket over your corpse after you've been cut out of your scuba kit and then cut out of your drysuit or wetsuit and then having to do CPR for 2 hours straight even though you know it's a lost cause or worse...not coming back with a body at all and leaving you on the bottom. It's a harsh reality that nobody likes to think about because we're all supposed to paint the pretty little narrative that diving is easy, always safe, fun and everyone can do it.
Look, I'm not in the best of shape and I would struggle to run a 5k in under 30 minutes right now. I realize that's pretty pathetic to some people here who can probably run a 6 minute mile in their sleep. Unfortunately I've had to rescue enough people in my short tenure as boat crew and captain that I really believe that sometimes people need to have a good and honest look in the mirror and think about their capabilities or limitations.
I'm happy to give help wherever I can if it means handing up deco or stage bottles, helping steady you to the swim platform in rough seas or giving you a little extra boost getting up the ladder. I'll swim a line out to you if you get a leg cramp and tow you back to the boat. I'll do a lot of things but what I won't do is enable somebody to dive that ultimately needs me to do absolutely everything for them, every time, every dive. It's not safe.
I feel I can speak for most boat operators when I say that none of us want you to die on our boat. It's far too much paperwork and really puts a damper on morale. Did I mention it really sucks?
Not everyone can be an astronaut just the same as not everyone can run a marathon or complete a triathlon. Some people can with hard work and training, others maybe it comes naturally while others simply can't do it at all. This culture of I can do anything I want with no limitations has to stop.
bakodiver391
Contributor
I don't see anyone advocating for no help at all. Everyone is in agreement that stages, cameras, scooters, what have you, should be handed up to the crew. The crew will even grab the crossbar on your doubles and help you up, and steady you all the way to your seat until you are safely seated, and then steady the doubles while you slip out of the harness, and bungie them in safely when you're done. They will not, however, carry your doubles for you. We have made a few exceptions over the years, but ALWAYS with prior warning before the passenger ever got on the boat. One guest had had recent surgery, and asked if we could handle his rebreather. Well, his particular setup weighed more than a set of doubles so we rigged a gantry with a 4 part rope fall to handle his gear. As someone pointed out, not an ideal scenario in rough seas when the weight starts swinging. We had a group last year who were diving to 600 feet every day. They asked if they could remove all their gear and just chill in the water for 10 minutes before climbing the ladder. With prior warning, we were happy to accomodate them. It meant having an extra man on the back deck to handle the 4 bailout tanks each and rebreathers. The point again is it needs to be worked out before leaving the dock and may require the expense of hiring an extra crewman. Nothing is impossible with forethought.
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