Boat diving.Do we have it all wrong?!

[ChuckP]

Rec or Tec ... if you can’t get yourself and your gear back on the boat you shouldn’t be diving off that boat on that day. Otherwise it’s unsafe for yourself and others. If you can’t do it at all you shouldn’t be boat diving. That may seem harsh but no one HAS to dive. It’s a hobby and if you can’t do it self-sufficiently than you need to pick a different hobby.

The implied (but unstated) context to my post was a traditional non-limited recreational or technical diver. Adaptive diving was not the context I was discussing. Adaptive diving is an entirely different beast requiring training and planning for special equipment, procedures, etc. In my mind adaptive diving is a completely different class or type of diving. It's not recreational nor technical but adapted diving.

So explain to me this adaptive diving thing.. You gotta be missing a leg? Maybe paralyzed? What is it? When do you reach the magical "adaptive" diver level? When do you get to that different class of diving?

Scuba diving is pretty dang fun, lots of cool chit to see down there - can you handle yourself in the water, if the answer is yes, if people really wanted to, they could figure the rest out. I didn't become an instructor to become financially rich by any means, I did it so that I could show people what is below the water, see their faces light up after a dive. I can't wait to have our first disabled veteran dive with us - taking someone on their 1000th dive is business, taking someone that has a disability or difficulty - that's what it's about.

Someone has a bum knee and needs a hand - you adapt. Someone has a fused spine and can't even walk up a single 80 - you adapt. My wife has a fused spine, not a chance of walking up a ladder with a single tank on, she dives all the time - we adapt.

And before you even stammer on about safety - there's a good percentage of divers I see here that are heart attacks waiting to happen or that are at an age that puts them into high risk heart problems. In my lifetime, I've had three friends drop dead with zero warning, aneurysm's all three, all between 32 and 43 no prior health problems. How you gonna get a 200# guy back up in the boat? I'm sure you'll figure it out just like if you really wanted to, you could figure out how to help a person in doubles back up a ladder.

Adaptive diving requires a plan just like all diving does.

 

[rjack321]

I have shared this video before but I will let you ponder how many tech divers you know who would be uncomfortable with this shore dive in a mere 60' of water in an inland lake.

Although convention would suggest SM is preferred for scrambly entries such as this, I've done way worse in doubles.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Adaptive diving requires a plan just like all diving does.

Yes, and adaptive diving can also include modifying your gear in such a way that it enables you to be able to unclip items, and remove gear in water, with minimal or no assistance. I've dive alongside divers that have severe physical disabilities and been in awe how self sufficient they are and how determine they are to be self sufficient (while recognising they need some assistance for certain tasks)

This is a whole different case, where the diver refuses to make any gear modification which means they demand 100% help on even the most basic needs of unclipping items and getting out of gear.

 

[Diving Dubai]

I mentioned it because others of stated that boat staff shouldn't help divers getting back on the boat, divers shouldn't be passing any gear up etc

That's not what has really been said.

Everyone passes Deco and stage cylinders, camera and scooters up. But you are expected to be able to unclip them yourself as well as provide some assistance from the bottom.

If you can't climb a ladder in doubles, you need to at least be able to climb out of the kit yourself unassisted and then attach the gear to whatever method is being used to get the kit out of the water.

Surface conditions may change where you absolutely need to climb out wearing your doubles, and be fast about unclipping - happened to me lots of times where the surface suddenly becomes a real bad place to be. Not being able to can risk others and the boat.

When you start demanding that everything is done for you things change, especially when diving Tec, since it's your choice to dive that configuration. Technical diving is more demanding and that's that.

 

[100days-a-year]

Pretty easy to see who wants a participation trophy out of life.
Glad I never went the charter route. Helping others is in my nature but enabling bad behavior is not, expecting someone else to carry your dead weight on a private boat will soon get you disinvited. I can see paying extra on a charter to get assistance beyond what is customary but expecting others to automatically accede to my demands of coddling is just a bit narcissistic to me.

 

[Celt]

Having worked on a tech liveaboard for 9 years, i can say that expecting the crew to dead lift a set of doubles out of the water is a definite no-no. Remember, the tanks are below the crew member's foot level, which means there is no way to "lift with your legs". The crew member is hunched over "like a dog frigging a football". and I have seen big, fit men destroy their backs attempting this move. Stage tanks, cameras, no problem, but never doubles of any description. And if you're diving a single tank BCD with integrated weights, hand up the weight pouches separately, if you expect the crew to lift your bc and tank.

Surely there’s a tender or swim platform at the water line on a commercial live aboard. I find it incredible that a commercial dive boat would make such a big deal out of handling a twin set.

 

[rjack321]

Surely there’s a tender or swim platform at the water line on a commercial live aboard. I find it incredible that a commercial dive boat would make such a big deal out of handling a twin set.

Most ladders on charters are actually built or at least designed by divers. Some boats have terrible ladders - don't tech dive off those boats.

You want your kit back aboard? Just climb the dang ladder or don't do the dive. Most ladders get the diver up to the swim platform which is within about 6 to 12 inches (~20cm) of the water. They are like 4 or 5 steps.

99+% of tech divers/dives take off their deco or BO bottles, pass up their scooter, pass up the camera, and finally just climb the ladder. Yes sometimes if its rough out or people are wobbly a mate will grab the manifold or top strap on a CCR and give you a nudge. Having a whole bunch of divers ditching even more gear in the ocean is not only going to take forever, but those crew have enough to handle already. I can't blame a charter for not wanting to deal with a whiney 1% client who can't move their own stuff around without a dedicated helper or even walk in their doubles.

 

[Celt]

Most ladders on charters are actually built or at least designed by divers. Some boats have terrible ladders - don't tech dive off those boats.

You want your kit back aboard? Just climb the dang ladder or don't do the dive. Most ladders get the diver up to the swim platform which is within about 6 to 12 inches (~20cm) of the water. They are like 4 or 5 steps.

99+% of tech divers/dives take off their deco or BO bottles, pass up their scooter, pass up the camera, and finally just climb the ladder. Yes sometimes if its rough out or people are wobbly a mate will grab the manifold or top strap on a CCR and give you a nudge. Having a whole bunch of divers ditching even more gear in the ocean is not only going to take forever, but those crew have enough to handle already. I can't blame a charter for not wanting to deal with a whiney 1% client who can't move their own stuff around without a dedicated helper or even walk in their doubles.

How many ladders have you. You still have to take your turn at the ladder. Why would everyone doff the gear at the same time, get real. If they have terrible ladders all the more reason not to put weight on them. Are you making this up as you go along. Are the ladders fit for purpose or not.

 

[bakodiver391]

How many ladders have you. You still have to take your turn at the ladder. Why would everyone doff the gear at the same time, get real. If they have terrible ladders all the more reason not to put weight on them. Are you making this up as you go along. Are the ladders fit for purpose or not.

We have a very good ladder, more like a solid staircase, and a swim platform within 6 inches of the water, and we still won't lift your doubles out of the water. Doubles float just at water level, the crew would still have to lift from below foot level. Why does your desire not to walk up with your doubles trump the crew's desire not to destroy their backs and continue to earn a living? If you can't walk out of the water with doubles on, stay home.

 

[Celt]

We have a very good ladder, more like a solid staircase, and a swim platform within 6 inches of the water, and we still won't lift your doubles out of the water. Doubles float just at water level, the crew would still have to lift from below foot level. Why does your desire not to walk up with your doubles trump the crew's desire not to destroy their backs and continue to earn a living? If you can't walk out of the water with doubles on, stay home.

You stay at home and cry in your soup over having to lift a set of doubles. I’m more than able to handle my gear.