Boat diving.Do we have it all wrong?!

[Celt]

There was no dedicated dive boats in Ireland until a few years ago. Diving was done from inflatables or fishing boats. The gear was always handed up. Today it’s mostly ribs and again the gear is handed up.

 

[Gareth J]

This is amusing, there is a simple solution, that the Brit's have adopted.
Unfortunately, in the land of the free, this is not allowed.

I have climbed back onto a boat in twin 12's with two 12 litre stages. On to a British offshore live aboard ( a converted trawler).
Thats is a 6 - 8ft climb on the side of a rolling boat. Thats what we used to do. Many a time, I stepped onto the ladder, waited for the boat to roll, taking my back under water, using the water to take the weight allowing me to go up a step. The boat would roll back lifting you clear of the water, then back the other way.
It was hard work.
Then we changed to off loading the stages and using a block and tackle to lift them clear, whilst exiting, with the twinset on your back.
Running recovery exercises for injured divers, the block and tackle and some straps, could be used to recover incapacitated divers. (I've even seen a casualty placed into a backplate and harness, then the casualty lifted using the harness.)
Which also meant we could drop twinsets in the water and use the block and tackle to recover the kit if we wished. No lifting for the crew, just a traditional block and tackle.

Any Boat with a lift has a ladder, just incase the lift fails.

A simple block and tackle (or two) solves a lot of problems. When you are lifting kit. Thats what I have in the garage for lifting twinsets, CCR's etc from the floor onto the work surface. When I'm loading the car for a dive trip, the twinset, or CCR is lifted onto the bench with the block and tackle. I put the whole set on my back, walk it round to the back of the car, sit in the boot (trunk/tailgate), un - harness - no lifting, as such.

Gareth

 

[shoredivr]

Here’s a BBC clip about archeologists who are diving off a boat in Britain to an interesting site in 11 metres of water. About half way through you’ll see a nice boat lift in action.

https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p08l...ox1eIeHyzsOLk_-07VH8WCe-0-U_yvWvQtNw6oM2J_qZI

 

[shoredivr]

This is amusing, there is a simple solution, that the Brit's have adopted.
Unfortunately, in the land of the free, this is not allowed.

I have climbed back onto a boat in twin 12's with two 12 litre stages. On to a British offshore live aboard ( a converted trawler).
Thats is a 6 - 8ft climb on the side of a rolling boat. Thats what we used to do. Many a time, I stepped onto the ladder, waited for the boat to roll, taking my back under water, using the water to take the weight allowing me to go up a step. The boat would roll back lifting you clear of the water, then back the other way.
It was hard work.
Then we changed to off loading the stages and using a block and tackle to lift them clear, whilst exiting, with the twinset on your back.
Running recovery exercises for injured divers, the block and tackle and some straps, could be used to recover incapacitated divers. (I've even seen a casualty placed into a backplate and harness, then the casualty lifted using the harness.)
Which also meant we could drop twinsets in the water and use the block and tackle to recover the kit if we wished. No lifting for the crew, just a traditional block and tackle.

Any Boat with a lift has a ladder, just incase the lift fails.

A simple block and tackle (or two) solves a lot of problems. When you are lifting kit. Thats what I have in the garage for lifting twinsets, CCR's etc from the floor onto the work surface. When I'm loading the car for a dive trip, the twinset, or CCR is lifted onto the bench with the block and tackle. I put the whole set on my back, walk it round to the back of the car, sit in the boot (trunk/tailgate), un - harness - no lifting, as such.

Gareth

Thanks for noting how easy it is to use a block and tackle to lift gear. Real life. I think resistance to this comes from the same place that resisted thing like nitrox back in the day. New things are seen as dangerous or impossible. Then somebody tries it, and before long it is commonplace.

 

[Dominik_E]

A general problem throughout parts of the diving community. Sure, not every idea is good. But resistance to any innovation for sure also is not.

 

[sabbe]

I don't see anyone advocating for no help at all. Everyone is in agreement that stages, cameras, scooters, what have you, should be handed up to the crew.

I've dove two boats this past year that advocated exactly that.

First one off NC that had an attitude tec divers do everything myself, load their gear, get themselves off the boat, get themselves back the boat including stages, and unload their gear. Mate wasn't even on deck when we were getting back in. Captain actually came running after I hit his boat with my stages trying to ride out a particularly large set of waves before getting the rest of the way in.

A 2nd FL Keys boat had a similar attitude regarding instructors. Thankfully the company quickly corrected it.

My attitude is if you're treating me like I don't exist the whole trip, I'll treat the mate like they don't exist come tip time.

Sam

 

[Dominik_E]

Quite shocking. How do they manage to stay in business? Apart from it being not even possible depending on the amount of gear and conditions, it is a completely useless risk having to do all the heavy lifting in a hurry after a dive. Sure, I am also a proponent of "one should be able to provide for oneself", but that can and needs to include arranging for helping hands.

 

[jale]

Hi
Being the OP, I would like to thanks all posters.
It is good to see the different views and interesting to see the gap between each side of the pond
It makes me wonder if British are more sensitive and sensible (or the other way round ) than American

 

[boulderjohn]

The person in question that this post is referring to is unable to climb a dive ladder in backmount doubles and has trouble unclipping stage/deco bottles to the point where the boat crew has to do EVERYTHING for them. This is not safe. When a diver needs full-on assistance EVERY DIVE, EVERY TIME, this is not safe. Repeated emphasis here is intentional.

Then you need to hit the gym or not tech dive off boats with ladders here. Its pretty much universally expected that you can climb a ladder with your doubles or CCR on, but not necessarily your deco or BO bottles.

I left this thread after early participation and have some comments that may seem a little out of synch with earlier comments.

First, my earlier understanding was that we were talking about the kind of help you generally see being offered on tech boats, not someone needing the degree of help described in the first comment above. I have to agree that is a bit beyond expectations.

Technical diving really does demand some level of physical ability above a category named "helpless." I don't know that we can agree on a specific level, but my point is that because we as technical divers know there is such a need, it behooves us--all of us--to take reasonable steps to be prepared. I am a good sized male with pretty decent strength, but I continue to exercise regularly to maintain and build strength so that I can better handle the rigors of the activity. It is not just diving and getting on and off a boat. I do mostly shore diving for my technical work, and there is one heck of a lot of equipment toting to be done, and by the end of the day we are all pretty darned tired. I would feel really bad if my fellow divers were extra tired because they had to step in and handle some of my share of the load.

In short, we are all different, but we can all do what we can to be able do our share and not have to "rely upon the kindness of strangers."

We had a similar thread a few years ago in which some of the male tech divers talked about their exercise programs. One of the females in the thread said that it made her realize she had been leading her life in accordance of the female stereotype that did not include weight training as a regular activity, but she now realized that if she wanted to be a tech diver, she needed to "woman up" and do the same kind of training the men were doing.

 

[boulderjohn]

Here is an old picture to illustrate what I mean above. I am a little under 6-0 tall, so that will give you perspective on the size of the woman with whom I am about to do a cave dive--Natalie Gibb. I would guess she is about 4-11. She mostly dives sidemount, but she does dive backmounted doubles at times, and she has no trouble carrying all needed gear into and out of the most difficult accesses for cenotes.