Bcd Help!

[KawabungaDude]

So really the Apeks Black Ice, Aqualung Dimension, and the pretty highly regarded Zeagle Stiletto are all not good options?

I keep looking at the harnesses of the back plate and wing setups but they just done seem to make sense to me. It looks like they would always need to to be adjusted and messed with. Or it would be impossible to have the straps even or get attachments where u want them. It looks like making a BC out of some rope and a pool float lol

 

[BDSC]

The Aqualung Dimension got excellent reviews from Scubalab back in 2011.

2011 ScubaLab BC Tests: Aqua Lung Dimension i3

 

[Doby45]

Get whatever you want.. This is like watching a train wreck over and over again.

Black Ice Review

Aqualung Dimension

Zeagle Stiletto

 

[laikabear]

I would recommend trying to find a USED BCD if you decide to go that route. They are easy to find (here, Ebay, Craigslist) and they lose a lot of value after they are used. I got a really good deal on a nice back-inflate BCD (Oceanic Hera, it's for ladies) off Scubaboard that was new without tags. I dove with it a few times, then upgraded (IMO) to a BP&W. But, I was able to re-sell it and recoup my investment. I would have been really irritated with myself if I'd spent >$500 on it and then after a few dives decided to get the BP&W anyway.

I was really hung up on having pockets and integrated weights. I found in practice that the integrated weights, when stuffed full of the amount of weight I needed at the time, impinged on the pockets. Since they are next to the pockets, when full, there is a lot less room in the pocket. My 6' SMB didn't fit at all, and if I wanted to put something else in there it was hard to get it in and out. You can't really see the pockets when you are diving, so you have to go by feel. And it can be hard to zip them back up if you are trying to replace something. You need both hands (at least I did - one to hold the back / beginning of the zipper and the other to close the zipper).

I like that my stainless steel backplate lets me dive with 6 lbs less weight. On my BP&W I chose to put little velcro pockets on the waistband, and that's where I keep my weights now. Still "integrated" I suppose. I didn't like wearing a weight belt either. Another thing I was worried about was comfort. I didn't think the BP&W harness (especially the crotch strap, eew) would be comfortable. Actually it's fine, even hiking down to the shore it's no problem. I think BP&W setups would sell easier if they were available for rental. It was somewhat of a leap to buy without trying, especially because at the time I didn't know anyone who dove with one.

So I get wanting a jacket style BCD. It's what I started with, too! But save some bucks and buy one that has a few dives on it off someone who gave up diving or moved to a BP&W.

Sorry I can't give you a recommendation on a specific one. I liked the ladies' one that I had.

And if you do go to a BP&W and want any advice on setting it up, PM me. I muddled through somehow and I can help you.

 

[dmaziuk]

So really the Apeks Black Ice, Aqualung Dimension, and the pretty highly regarded Zeagle Stiletto are all not good options?

I keep looking at the harnesses of the back plate and wing setups but they just done seem to make sense to me. It looks like they would always need to to be adjusted and messed with. Or it would be impossible to have the straps even or get attachments where u want them. It looks like making a BC out of some rope and a pool float lol

Yes, and if the rope can hold the rest of it comfortably attached to your body, it's all you need. There may be other things you like or think you need that rope doesn't provide and it's perfectly fine to not want it for that reason.

What's your logic behind "get attachments where you want them"? -- If you have a bare strip of webbing, you can move D-rings anywhere you want on it. On a "deluxe" harness you'll be limited by the buckles and shoulder pads, and I haven't seen a jacket BCD where you can move attachment points at all.

 

[diversteve]

Not if, but when the shoulder strap rips or a cheap buckle breaks on the BCD, the entire unit is likely trash as the cost of a repair may not be worth it.

Funny my Ranger is 12 and none of that has happened yet. Plastic buckles and all - even the camstraps have plastic buckles and velcro to tighten against.1000 denier nylon so it's even pretty scuff-free.

Most of the Zeagle line is modular - components can even be swapped at the store b4 purchase for a better fit. They call it their Personal Fit System. So if something ever does rip, I can likely buy that piece.

So in this case that argument holds less weight. Although the Stiletto (mentioned as a choice originally by the OP) less so than their other models - it still has the PFS but I believe the wing, lumbar pad and tank mounting are sewn together - it's a single tank only system so there's no reason to change the soft backplate.

How many buckles/straps have you torn out on the Hunter Pac? Maybe you're discussing something that never happens.

(they make more money on a jacket BCD than a BP&W) whereas the truth couldn't be further from that.

You've apparently never priced Halcyon gear...

 

[tbone1004]

the margins on halcyon gear aren't all that great for their dealers, the margins are nothing like the bcd's.

Steve, what makes the Stiletto $100 better than the Deep Sea Supply, and $200 better than the Hunterpac? Keeping in mind that while it is modular a stiletto, plus a doubles wing is more expensive than buying a dedicated singles and doubles rig from Deep Sea Supply...

 

[admikar]

most new divers either have never heard of a BPW or have dismissed them ahead of time because of the mistaken impression that they are a "tech" thing.

You described me almost perfectly. My first choice was Mares Hybrid Pure, but reading here about weights problems got me thinking. Next choices were Dimension and Black Ice, but neither felt good.

For the record my LDSs all said BP&W are more for tech divers.

My LDS told me initially it is for more experienced divers, just because there might be setup problems, but there is no good reason for a beginner not to go that route.

So really the Apeks Black Ice, Aqualung Dimension, and the pretty highly regarded Zeagle Stiletto are all not good options?

No, whatever works for you is good option. BP&W proponents, me included, are trying to give you new insights that you MIGHT NOT consider before.

I keep looking at the harnesses of the back plate and wing setups but they just done seem to make sense to me. It looks like they would always need to to be adjusted and messed with. Or it would be impossible to have the straps even or get attachments where u want them. It looks like making a BC out of some rope and a pool float lol

It needs to be adjusted initially, maybe over few dives, but once you set it up the way you like, it stays that way. And you will not notice a few mm (I am a metric guy) of discrepancy, besides do you really think jacket straps are always even? You put attachments wherever you want, just by sliding ring up/down on your webbing, and you put as many as you want, not as many as mfg thinks you want.

 

[diversteve]

Steve, what makes the Stiletto $100 better than the Deep Sea Supply, and $200 better than the Hunterpac? Keeping in mind that while it is modular a stiletto, plus a doubles wing is more expensive than buying a dedicated singles and doubles rig from Deep Sea Supply...

Nothing, not one single thing. Except a Stiletto is possibly what the OP wants since he's mentioned it more than once.

IDK if you're aware of it but the new Scubapro Lighthawk is advertised as neutral in the water also.

The BC carries no inherent buoyancy so only minimal ballast weight is required.

fwiw, there is no double wing option for a Stiletto - the single 35lb. wing is sewn on at the factory.

Can we end this now? It's not fair to the OP and I fully take my share of the blame also. As has been our past history, neither is going to convince the other anyway...

 

[doctormike]

Another thing to keep in mind is that while all of us have had this discussion more times than we can remember, for the OP this may be the first time he is hearing it.

If anyone doesn't enjoy going over the same points again and again for a new audience, there is certainly no obligation to participate. But it shouldn't be a surprise that the same question generates the same answer.

I personally like this discussion. I like helping new divers understand that just because the vast majority of casual divers use a jacket BC, that doesn't mean that it's a better option. And if they are purchasing a BC, this is a good as time as any to learn.

Based on the OPs last few comments, he seems to have very little idea of what the BPW actually is, so there is still an opportunity for teaching, which is why we have these forums in the first place.