Bcd Help!

[CuzzA]

I mentioned earlier to look at the HunterPac as I own it, and while I have zero buyers remorse as I know it will serve me well for many many dives, in retrospect it's hard to argue against a BP/W, especially for saltwater diving. If I had done a little more research, I would have went with a BP/W.

You mentioned the car analogy and it seems to be the ongoing theme, but I don't believe it is a good analogy. Instead let's use a desktop computer.

For most people who actually do their research when buying a computer the first thing they consider is it integrated or not. In other words, is the video card, memory, wifi, etc. built into the motherboard or are all of the components separate? Why is that important? Well, on an integrated computer system if one component fails the entire system is trash, whereas with a non integrated system, if the video card dies, you can simply replace the video card. Or perhaps you just want to upgrade a component rather than buy a whole new computer system. Maybe a new technology came out and it can be added to your system.

I believe the same is true when comparing an integrated BCD vs. a BP/W. Not if, but when the shoulder strap rips or a cheap buckle breaks on the BCD, the entire unit is likely trash as the cost of a repair may not be worth it. For a BP/W, the harness can be replaced for a few bucks. Rarely will you find a BP/W system using plastic buckles or other cheap components. That to me is the most obvious advantage.

At the end of the day, all of the advantages of any integrated BCD can be incorporated into a BP/W, however you can't take the advantages of a BP/W and incorporate that into an integrated BCD.

 

[JBFG]

For the record my LDSs all said BP&W are more for tech divers.

my old LDS also told me that split fins were the best.
should i go back to the landfill and retrieve them? I think no.
don't believe everything that the salesman is telling you.

 

[Neilwood]

For the record my LDSs all said BP&W are more for tech divers.

They do tend to do that (they make more money on a jacket BCD than a BP&W) whereas the truth couldn't be further from that.

The history is interesting (I am generalising so please don't pick faults) - people originally started with harnesses (to hold the tanks to them), added buoyancy (horse collar originally) and then the manufacturers came up with stab jackets to make some money by combining both buoyancy and harness together (as well as a lot of features most people won't use but look great in a shop).

Problem is those features actually make it worse to use than a BP&W (if properly set up, which takes 10-15 minutes with a bit of help or an hour watching videos and tweaking).

My main reason was to get weight from my belt onto my back (also has the effect of reducing the overall as BP&W are not buoyant whereas a jacket will be by normally about 6lbs - most folk will take about 6-10lbs of weight off by using one with a steel plate).

 

[rongoodman]

For the record my LDSs all said BP&W are more for tech divers.

And you believed them?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

For the record my LDSs all said BP&W are more for tech divers.

I had the head of one agency tell me that a rep for a very large gear company told him that BPW's are not dived west of Pennsylvania. I still have the email with that. It was in response to my article on BPW's for new and newer divers that I submitted to them for publication and will reproduce in my new book on advanced diving. A CD/shop owner for that same agency said that sidemount was too technical for new divers. At the same time that he was pushing the Poseidon 7 rebreather for new divers! Go figure.
A BPW is a BC. Plain and simple. It has an inflatable bladder, a harness, a pad or plate on which to mount the tank, and two cam bands. Tell me that does not fit the description of any BC. The main differences are that it is all modular, can be custom fit to the diver, can be configured to the divers needs, style, and interests.
You can accessorize it any way you choose. I make custom hardware for them on a limited basis to add chest straps, change the harness to an "H" style like some sidemount rigs, and sell pockets for the cam bands and the waist belt.
I was a purist until I found some students that did not work for. Or they were not comfortable in the standard Hogarthian harness. So we did what worked for them and made them happy. They are not interested in caves, wrecks, or looking like JJ or AG. They just wanted something that was theirs and in the style they needed. So I did what worked for them and will continue to do that.

 

[Skeptic14]

So now bcds have to be tossed if a single component (buckle, strap) breaks???

Really? Looking at mine, I don't see too many components that aren't easily fixed/replaced...

I think some of you are really reaching again... you'd have us believe hordes of people are having to throw out new otherwise perfectly good bcds because of one damaged buckle.

You guys.... :lolabove:

 

[tbone1004]

no, but we have all experienced someone have to throw away a complete BC because the bladder got a hole in it and can't be repaired. With the rigs mentioned, that is $600 or more down the drain. With a backplate, it's a $100 or less replacement bladder.

Sometimes the shoulder straps do break, but if the manufacturer charges you $100 to resew the buckle and you are without a rig for 2 weeks, is it really worth it? On a backplate if for whatever reason the webbing breaks or starts fraying or has to be cut in an emergency, you are out less than $20 and about half an hour of your time to put a new harness on.

These are all very real incidents that have happened, is it by the hoard? of course not, but is it worth the risk? no

remember that any dive shop that says plates are for technical divers are saying that because they have either no experience with them and are speaking out of ignorance, or they are driven by their wallets because typical recreational gear has a 100% markup, and technical gear is typically less than 50%, so they make a lot more money selling typical jacket bc's. Also remember that while you have less than 25 dives and less than a year of experience, the combined diving experience greatly exceeds your lifespan in this thread, and many of us work with the gear manufacturers on gear design. We know the margins, we know the design criteria, and there is a very good reason that we choose to use our "Technical" gear, when we are diving recreational reef dives. Remember that it isn't always the convenience of using the same gear because if we have a plate for doubles, it won't be the plate we use for singles *doubles are typically kydex or aluminum due to ballast, singles are typically stainless*, and the wings can't do double duty. If the jacket was better, why would we invest in another backplate?

 

[Skeptic14]

Did some quick research and looks like multiple bcd manufacturers say that bladder leaks can be inspected and potentially fixed, and if not they sell replacement bladders.

$100 to fix a buckle? Where did you find that price?

My LDS actually showed me a plate and I tried it on, it did fit well, but I wanted pockets and liked the axiom better, it's really just that simple. There is no one size fits all.

I'm not and I haven't seen other bcd users in anyway trying to claim that a bp/w is inferior or that our more extensive knowledge and experience is what lead us to choose a bcd over a bp/w.

It's called personal preference. When people choose a bcd that doesn't diminish your choice to go with a bp/w... it's ok.

 

[mi000ke]

I was in your position a few months ago. I am a fairly novice diver who does only warm water diving. My only equipment experience at the time was with jacket-style BCDs both during my OW course and all the subsequent rentals. So when it came time to buy my own gear I was pretty overwhelmed. After doing tons of research, the one thing I did know is that I wanted a back inflate BCD. I saw that the overwhelming opinion on SB was to get a BP/W and I spent a bunch of time educating myself abort this thing I had never heard of. At the same time I was reading as many reviews about travel BC as I could. I will admit that I was intimidated by the BP/w concept. Too many parts for a novice like me to figure out. I spent almost an hour on the phone with Tobin at DSS and I came away both more knowledgeable and more confused. Then I read this thread about the Zeagle Express Tech on SB :

Zeagle's Express Tech: The first and last BC most will ever need (or want)

This seemed like the perfect compromise. It was kind of like a BP/W but it came fully assembled. And to make a long story less long, that's what I purchased. (Also, my sister and bother-in-law independently and coincidentally decided to get Zeagles around the same time, so we bought them together and got a great deal.) Now, I have to say I love the ET. But....after a couple of dives I realized that it was "more" BC than I needed. Probably the "deluxe" harness is what I like the least, and at some point I will swap it out for a simple one-piece harness.

And if I were buying today, I would call Tobin at DSS and get whatever BP/W set-up he recommends. The only problem is that you will not get comfortable with the decision to get a BP/W until you buy something else. So... I highly recommend the Zeagle Express Tech. I think it will fit exactly what you are looking for.

 

[Doby45]

So... I highly recommend the Zeagle Express Tech. I think it will fit exactly what you are looking for.

Spoken for truth. I could not be happier with mine as see it as a BC that I will keep even when I move on to side mount or back mount doubles because it is just easy and convenient to use with a single back mount tank.