Banana drama

[seaducer]

Quit! Next thing you'll tell me there is no Santa Claus or Tooth Fairy. Have you ever broken a wish bone? I'm not sure what is more dangerous in this world, someone who believes in superstitions, or someone who decides what the rest of the world ought to believe.

You are absolutely correct. Here is a tip though, people who believe in superstitions are often the very same people who are trying to force you to believe what they do.

You may notice in my post, I never told anyone what to believe or not. I simply provided an adjective to describe those who believe in superstitions.

 

[merxlin]

I partly agree. But I will add that if you are respecting the captain's request simply to have yours respected, that appears to be a little more self-serving than respecting. Just curious if anyone involved in this thread were to see the sign stating"Please, no bananas on my boat.", would you not question "why"? Unlike the "Please remove your shoes....etc.." which is an established custom for many people, we have yet to establish the true basis of "no bananas". We haven't found any evidence that it is customary nor tradition for any person. So in other words, what is your respect based on? Is it based on honoring the superstitious (no bananas)? Or is it based on honoring the custom/tradition (no shoes)? This is my contention.

So your contention is that if enough people believe in something it is a tradition/custom, but if only a few then it is superstition? If all Dave wants is to extend the life of his carpet, and asks you to remove your shoes before entering his house, why do you comply? There is neither custom or superstition involved. Would you do it for Dave, but not for someone else who claims that it is bad luck?

I suppose this would be an example of honoring the request with no regard for respect? This would be the same as telling the captain that I disposed of the banana but I hid it and kept it on board. Self serving but effective nonetheless!

My point was that I could do that.....personally I doubt that I would. As far as hiding the banana, if the banana is indeed bad luck and the boat sinks it's your fault. If it is superstition and the captain doesn't know the banana is on board and something happens, then it is just an unfortunate occurrence.

And self serving or not, honoring a request is all we can ask for. I don't have to believe what the other person believes, just not contradict what they believe.

merxlin, great portion here but I see it the other way around. I see that we have too much compliance and tolerance based on superstition and not custom/tradition. Thanks for the discussion!

I would not take a ham into a Jewish Temple, or a steak into a Hindu Temple. I may not agree with their same beliefs, but I wouldn't disregard them either. I don't see that as too much compliance.

A bit outside the box but maybe this applies. Why do so many people speed, yet scream about immigration or other laws not being enforced? Isn't it non-compliance and disrespect for the law (a custom/tradition) which is selective obedience?

 

[merxlin]

You are absolutely correct. Here is a tip though, people who believe in superstitions are often the very same people who are trying to force you to believe what they do.

I have found this to be much more true of people's belief in politics and religion than superstitions.

I have also found that the shallower a basis for belief, the more resistant someone is to respecting someone else's belief. If I hold to what I believe to be true, what you believe really does not affect me. I also do not have the need for you to believe the same things I do, although I will be happy to discuss why I believe what I do with you. I do not have to make you wrong to make myself right.

You may notice in my post, I never told anyone what to believe or not. I simply provided an adjective to describe those who believe in superstitions.

I ride motorcycles. I have a Ju-Ju bell on it. The superstition is that the sound keeps the gremlins away. Do I believe it works? Maybe it does. I have no way of knowing what would have happened in the course of my riding if I had not had the bell on the bike. By your statement I'm an idiot (or at least a borderline idiot) and stupid.

 

[seaducer]

Pick a stand that is worth standing for. All the while respecting others culture, religious beliefs and superstitions, they will be more likely to respect yours.

This is a noble sentiment, but it is more than just a little wrong. I will cite history as proof. People with conflicting religious beliefs have been (and still are) killing and torturing each other for as long as we have had religious beliefs.

I see no reason to respect someone's irrational belief structure, especially if they are using it as motivation to control others.

 

[Boxcar Overkill]

I can tell you with 100% certainty that your ju-ju bell doesn't keep the gremlins away.

There's a whole body of knowledge surrounding physics, biology, chemistry, etc. All of that information would have to be wrong for a ju-ju bell to be useful in keeping away gremlins. You can either believe in the scientific method or you can believe in superstition, but you can't believe in both. They lead you to diametrically opposite conclusions. In fact, a good definition of the super-natural would be a theory that runs counter to the scientific body of knowledge.

I believe in the scientific method, but I know not everyone else does.

 

[Scubadoo72]

If you don't take bananas, what are you supposed to feed the wolf eels?

 

[livinoz]

I can tell you with 100% certainty that your ju-ju bell doesn't keep the gremlins away.

There's a whole body of knowledge surrounding physics, biology, chemistry, etc. All of that information would have to be wrong for a ju-ju bell to be useful in keeping away gremlins. You can either believe in the scientific method or you can believe in superstition, but you can't believe in both. They lead you to diametrically opposite conclusions. In fact, a good definition of the super-natural would be a theory that runs counter to the scientific body of knowledge.

I believe in the scientific method, but I know not everyone else does.

I've read here for a while too, and can I just say I believe that there is a whole range of empirical knowledge not "based" on the scientific method; oral knowledge predated written by some millennia. And "superstitions", whether we personally believe them or not, usually have some historical or cultural basis. The thing with Western cultures is that we need that written, reproducible proof, and when we come up against something that we don't understand, we discount it as being "unscientific" and therefore false. For a good, reproducible proof, look at the Micronesian navigators, who pass down the most intricate knowledge with no written records at all.

I think respect for other cultures and beliefs, as Teamcasa has said, is important. And maybe the inital "banana" problem was more in the method of asking than in what was asked.

 

[DandyDon]

I can tell you with 100% certainty that your ju-ju bell doesn't keep the gremlins away.

I believe in the scientific method, but I know not everyone else does.

I think that I am 100% positive that a Gremlin has not come within 100 miles of that bike. :14:

 

[seaducer]

I ride motorcycles. I have a Ju-Ju bell on it. The superstition is that the sound keeps the gremlins away. Do I believe it works? Maybe it does. I have no way of knowing what would have happened in the course of my riding if I had not had the bell on the bike. By your statement I'm an idiot (or at least a borderline idiot) and stupid.

If you rely on the bell to keep your motorcycle running, and disregard preventative maintenence, I may very well call you stupid when the engine siezes.

If you rely on the bell to keep you safe and in your superstitious confidence leave your helmet at home, weave in and out of traffic and pop wheelies at 100MPH, I would also call you stupid.

On the other hand, it sounds as if teh juju bell is there more because you like it, and not because you believe it has magic powers.

Many people have good luck charms. Myself included. I keep mine more for what they mean to me (a gift from my father before he died, for example), than the belief my "luck" is better. To me there is a huge difference between having a strong feeling about an object, and believing that it has super powers and makes you special because you own it.

Some superstitions are fine, like baseball players. Their's may have some basis in reality. By that I mean the key to success in pitching or hitting is to do the same thing every time. Part of that may be to wear the same socks, or shave at the same time. It all goes towards consistency. I'm not saying those are magic socks, but the act of being consistent in the locker room may translate into being consistent on the mound.

Luck=chance taken personally. I don't know who first said that, but I heard it from Phil Plait.

I have heard the banana myth may have gotten it's origins in reality. Spiders and snakes live in banana trees, and may have been brought on board and caused problems with bites to the crew. So back then, thinking bananas caused problems wasn't irrational. However today, it is, as surely unless you are allergic, bananas are harmless, and even if you are allergic, they are certainly devoid of magical powers, for good or evil.

I think most people can agree that bananas are not magical. Therefor why should we respect the belief of someone who thinks they are? More importantly, why should we place our trust in this individual?

 

[seaducer]

And "superstitions", whether we personally believe them or not, usually have some historical or cultural basis.

True. Take the banana issue, if what I have heard is true, then that superstition was based on reality. There are many "superstitions" that are based in reality. In the search for answers, we often realise why things are the way they are. On the other hand, we can just be irrational and cling to an idea without trying to understand why.